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Old 07-31-2012, 09:17 PM   #1
Mercury305
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Lightbulb Constructive Criticism of Slackware


A lot of Slackers hate when I talk stuff that isn't in best interest of Slack... But what is the best interest of Slack? To go its own route without any opinions from its users? Closed to the outside world as the rest of the world evolves?

Reminds me of a President we used to have cough cough Bush.

Listen folks. Lets put away all biases and actually talk about what is wrong with Slackware. That way maybe the developers will change things fix things... especially with the upcoming

I like Slack but some things about it I don't and would wish they were different. So here let me start:

With my options what would make it better for *me*

1- Get rid of outdated docs and software and all unnecessary stuff.

2- Be more open to innovation

3- More support (maybe widen the inner circle with new recruits) No man is a mountain.

I think this is what Slackware needs more then anything. Criticism, its because of too much Praise that it is still not too different then the Slackware I used in 1998.
 
Old 07-31-2012, 09:22 PM   #2
frankbell
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Words fail me.
 
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:35 PM   #3
willysr
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1. What do you mean by unnecessary stuffs? What probably unnecessary to you might be necessary for other people. We can't make everyone's wishes to be included in Slackware or else it will be bloated. That's why we have third party repositories such as SlackBuilds Project which contains stuffs that are not yet or no longer maintained in Slackware tree

2. Innovative doesn't mean we have to leave our main philosophy of KISS which is perfect for most people who have been using Slackware

3. What else can you expect? We have huge support in LQ and in IRC (##slackware). Even Pat and the rest of the team often discussed here to solve problems.
 
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:40 PM   #4
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury305 View Post
Reminds me of a President we used to have cough cough Bush.
[MODERATED]

Keep politics out of the forum.

Last edited by unSpawn; 08-01-2012 at 03:53 AM. Reason: //foundBad
 
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:43 PM   #5
ReaperX7
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You'd be surprised at how much Patrick takes in as feedback outside these forums. This is why you see various changes to the versions of software often and occasionally a rollback package being pushed out. If you follow his Twitter page and hop on the Slackware IRC channel you'll tend to see him a lot more often posting and getting feedback from users, developers, and even maintainers of other distributions.

1. Slackware actually has a lot of software trimmed from it. Now granted some stuff does come back in for dependency purposes only, most of what's in Slackware already is prime software for general full system usage.

2. Again check the IRC and Twitter feeds. If you saw how much bombardments Patrick and crew get each day you'd realize how innovative Slackware is. In actuality Slackware is a very advanced innovative system because it uses such vanilla grade software with as much avoidance of the upstream as possible. Remember a patch can break just as much if not more than it fixes. This is why Slackware software gets only handfuls of releases because much care is taken towards the system.

3. Again the IRC channel, newsgroups, and even various forums all are great community places to get quality level support factors. Yes, Patrick is one man, but remember the Spiderman quote, "With great power comes great responsibility." With Patrick being the BDFL yes he has full control over the system, but also, he takes great care into putting out quality over quantity, and with being a BDFL, his power is great and his responsibilities are even greater.

In fact Linuxquestions is probably one of the most active Slackware communities. However, do note, software changes all the time, and sometimes some things can't be avoided regardless of what we try. However, Slackware has been one of the oldest currently maintained distributions and whatever may come in the future with releases, rest assured that the goals of Slackware will remain the same.
 
Old 07-31-2012, 09:44 PM   #6
T3slider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rworkman View Post
The beauty of open source is that anyone who's more interested in seeing that happen as opposed to whining about its lack of happening is free to *make* it happen. The curse of open source is the sense of entitlement that leads so many to think that they should get to decide how others spend their time.
I instantly thought of this. You are working under the assumption that Slackware is fundamentally broken. The users of Slackware tend to disagree. By changing the way Slackware works, you alienate the existing users. Those who do not like Slackware are not condemned to use it. Pat and the core team are producing the Slackware they want. You, one lone user (and a new one to Slackware at that), should not get to decide how they spend their time. This is not Mercury305ware and it not produced solely for you. There are plenty of other distros out there...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury305 View Post
Criticism, its because of too much Praise that it is still not too different then the Slackware I used in 1998.
Slackware has much of the latest software and in some cases provides newer software than some of the major distros (Slackware -current has gcc 4.7.1 for example). Slackware in 1998 didn't come with the latest KDE/XFCE, udev, etc. Debian hasn't changed in its ideals since 1998. I guess they should completely reinvent themselves too.
 
Old 07-31-2012, 09:48 PM   #7
animeresistance
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Hmmm ...

I understand that constructive criticism sometimes help.

In point number 1, maybe some documents, i'm not sure, are outdated (nothing is perfect), maybe they should be updated, i remember when the slackbook was outdated, but then someone helped to update it. But, when sometimes docs are outdated, you can always ask questions in this forum (thanks to all the nice guys that helps us in our need )

When you ask for innovation, what do you mean?

I think Slackware is open to innovations and you can always modify the code (if you want) to suit your needs. (Well is at least what i think)
 
Old 07-31-2012, 09:54 PM   #8
Mercury305
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OK So according to you guys Slackware is God and there is nothing wrong with it because it is so perfect... Makes me want to stop posting in this place.

Look up the word "Constructive Criticism" this is to criticize things that are wrong with it. Instead you attack me again? And Slackware remains the same... Just like its community.

have fun mounting your zip drives and floppies and reading Docs from early 1990s.

Bye.

Last edited by Mercury305; 07-31-2012 at 09:55 PM.
 
Old 07-31-2012, 09:56 PM   #9
ReaperX7
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This is why Merc I suggested you need to get your feet wet with other distributions and find what works best for you, and why I pointed you towards ArchLinux or similar heavily customizable distros.

Like you said you were trying out multiple distributions but hadn't found the right one yet, correct?

Although I'd dare say it... you might have a fun time with Linux From Scratch. LFS at the moment still uses sysVinit scripting with some BSD init runlevel scripting and very little if any usage of the udev/systemd style handlers for the system. It's a very basic of basic distro, even if you have to build it yourself, you actually could install a VERY minimal ArchLinux "base" and "base-devel" system, build it, and then work at it slowly.

True sometimes Slackware isn't for everyone. However, with an open mind look into distros and builds you might have never thought about.
 
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:57 PM   #10
willysr
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I'm guessing what Linux distribution that you think is perfect?
Not even a single distribution that comes with 0 bugs or problems
every Distro has it's own problems and you have to live with it if you want to use it.

What's wrong to you doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone.
We all think that you are the wrong one here
 
Old 07-31-2012, 09:58 PM   #11
mrclisdue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury305 View Post
...Bye.
Another disgruntled customer. To whom shall I send the refund?

cheers,
 
Old 07-31-2012, 10:00 PM   #12
ReaperX7
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I'm not saying who is or isn't wrong. I'm saying he might not have found his comfort zone yet. Slackware can be at times can be a bitter pill to swallow, or it can be a piece of cake. It not a system for everyone, and no system is for everyone.

Last edited by ReaperX7; 07-31-2012 at 10:01 PM.
 
Old 07-31-2012, 10:00 PM   #13
Mercury305
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PS... that DoS attack done on me was pretty lame... Especially that I have multiple routers to connect too.

Get a Life!
 
Old 07-31-2012, 10:07 PM   #14
astrogeek
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Geeeezzzzz...

Give it a rest Merc.

My Grandmother had a small dog that yipped from morning to night for no apparent reason. Even though I loved her dearly, I seldom visited because of it. Yip! Yip! Yip! For no apparent reason.

There was a kid in my neighborhood who was likeable enough, no one wished him any harm. But if you invited him over for a swim he would invaribly p*ss in the pool. He thought it was cute. No one else did. And he was seldom welcomed as a result.

Sometimes your posts are reminiscent of those yipping, tinkling sounds...

(Think of this as constructive criticism.)

Last edited by astrogeek; 07-31-2012 at 10:11 PM.
 
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Old 07-31-2012, 10:11 PM   #15
ReaperX7
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Okay, let's all calm down here and end the zealotry because it's getting us nowhere. DoSing someone also isn't "community friendly" and might hurt LQ's overall reputation. Really I'd say whoever did it was very immature in it. Just because someone doesn't agree 100% with the Slackware philosophy doesn't mean we slash out and attack them by whatever means we can.

I don't agree 100% with Slackware's philosophy myself, and yes often we all see things that could be improved, even I seen one and learned from it and later recanted with the Firewall debate, but let's all be civil and discuss things rather than play "lynchmob" with the others here.

LQ is a nice community, nobody here has all the answers, and every distribution has it's strengths and weaknesses just like every OS out there.

I'm not a moderator, and I don't want to be one. I'm just a average user here, but I will ask that we try and keep the peace and be responsible and respectful here, as well as mature.
 
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