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Old 05-30-2008, 04:37 PM   #1
manuel otto
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Location: Alkmaar, The Netherlands
Distribution: Slackware 12.0
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Burning DVD's at the wrong speed - a few questions


Hi, this is my first post here, I think, and I have a burning question.

I just can't figure out how to burn DVD's at 16x on my somewhat older system.

The system is not the fastest, but burning DVD's at 16x should be possible, I believe:

Linux Slackware 12.0, kernel 2.6.21.5-smp (Mon Feb 11 16:57:54 CST 2008), i686 Pentium III at 1000 MHz, RAM 512 MB, KDE 3.5.7, K3B 1.0.2.

At the end of this message is some more detailed information about the system.

On to the burning:

When I burn a video-DVD I use the following settings: DAO (Disk At Once, for greatest compatability with most stand-alone DVD-players), and 'create image first', which speed things up by 50% (for me).

The disks are 16x disks: Kodak Professional Gold DVD-R, said to last up to 100 years, but I've also read figures like up to 80 years, which is long enough for me, if I only could burn them at the right speed...

Because burning at 16 speed when the disk is made for 16 speed is the best, isn't it? Or does burning it at, lets say 8 speed makes it last (much) less longer? And how much?

After the image is is created in K3B temp directory, from the moment K3B says something like 'preparing the burn', until the disk is ejected, it takes 280 more seconds to actually burn the disk. This translates to an average burn speed of a little under 12 speed.

K3B gives information about the *estimated* burn speed, and it starts under 8, then slowly gets up to 13.4 speed (somewhere around 50% of the burning), then drops to about 8, quickly klimes to 12 speed, and stays there till the burning is complete.

It never gets to 16 speed. But then, according to the quote below (quote is linked to its source) I AM burning at max speed, at least for the first ¾ of the disk which says:

Quote:
1 - Understanding Incremental speeds: Incremental speed burning was developed for CD-R burning starting at 24x and has carried over to DVD-R burning starting at 8x. Incremental speed burning is actually multi-speed burning on the same disc. Incremental speed burning starts slow at the center of the disc and speeds up to the outer edge, since physics won't allow a disc to burn at higher speeds at the center of the disc, incremental speed burning was a necessity but not the optimum solution.

2 - Incremental Speed burners are technically a quad speed burner with 8x & 16x only burning at that specific speed on the last quarter of the program. 8x burn speed = 2x-4x-6x-8x, so what you actually get is an average record speed of "5x". 16x burn speed = 6x-8x-12x-16x, which equates to an average record speed of "10.5x"

I find all this (partially contradictive) information quite confusing.

I also used k3bsetup, to change the rights on hdc, hdd, cdrdao, cdrecord and growisofs. Even if from Slackware 12.0 on this should not be necasary anymore. But I read some info on it on Web, which said it was still needed. It didn't change the burning speed though.

I really hope someone has some answers.

Here's some additional information on my system:

- Two harddisks (IDE, hda (master) & hdb (slave), both at UDMA5):

Code:
/dev/hda:

 Model=WDC WD400JB-00JJC0, FwRev=05.01C05, SerialNo=WD-WCAMA4444623
 Config={ HardSect NotMFM HdSw>15uSec SpinMotCtl Fixed DTR>5Mbs FmtGapReq }
 RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=66
 BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=8192kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=78165360
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio3 pio4 
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 
 AdvancedPM=no WriteCache=enabled
 Drive conforms to: Unspecified:  ATA/ATAPI-1,2,3,4,5,6

 * signifies the current active mode


/dev/hdb:

 Model=Maxtor 6L250R0, FwRev=BAJ41G20, SerialNo=L5A7V6MG
 Config={ Fixed }
 RawCHS=16383/16/63, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=57
 BuffType=DualPortCache, BuffSize=16384kB, MaxMultSect=16, MultSect=16
 CurCHS=16383/16/63, CurSects=16514064, LBA=yes, LBAsects=268435455
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5 udma6 
 AdvancedPM=yes: disabled (255) WriteCache=enabled
 Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 0:  ATA/ATAPI-1,2,3,4,5,6,7

 * signifies the current active mode

(When I copy a large (1 GB) file from hdb to hda, the transferspeed starts at around 40 MB/s, and then steadaly drops, at the end of the transfer the speed is little over 20 MB/s, while UDMA5 should be able to do 100 MB/s (at maximum), or am I just missing something crucial...)

- Two DVD stations, the first is DVD burner, the second only reads DVD's (IDE, hdc (burner, master) & hdd (slave), both at UDMA2):

/dev/hdc:

 Model=HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4167B, FwRev=DL13, SerialNo=92B500BA7A13
 Config={ Fixed Removeable DTR<=5Mbs DTR>10Mbs nonMagnetic }
 RawCHS=0/0/0, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=0
 BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=0kB, MaxMultSect=0
 (maybe): CurCHS=0/0/0, CurSects=0, LBA=yes, LBAsects=0
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio3 pio4 
 DMA modes:  mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 *udma2 
 AdvancedPM=no
 Drive conforms to: Unspecified:  ATA/ATAPI-2,3,4,5

 * signifies the current active mode


/dev/hdd:

 Model=HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8164B, FwRev=0L06, SerialNo=
 Config={ Fixed Removeable DTR<=5Mbs DTR>10Mbs nonMagnetic }
 RawCHS=0/0/0, TrkSize=0, SectSize=0, ECCbytes=0
 BuffType=unknown, BuffSize=0kB, MaxMultSect=0
 (maybe): CurCHS=0/0/0, CurSects=0, LBA=yes, LBAsects=0
 IORDY=on/off, tPIO={min:120,w/IORDY:120}, tDMA={min:120,rec:120}
 PIO modes:  pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4 
 DMA modes:  sdma0 sdma1 sdma2 mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 
 UDMA modes: udma0 udma1 *udma2 
 AdvancedPM=no
 Drive conforms to: ATA/ATAPI-6 T13 1410D revision 3a:  ATA/ATAPI-2,3,4,5,6

 * signifies the current active mode
(The 2 datacables for the disks and DVD stations are both of the 80-wire type)

The output of lspci:

Code:
#lspci -vvvm

Device: 00:00.0
Class:  Host bridge
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82815 815 Chipset Host Bridge and Memory Controller Hub
SVendor:        Intel Corporation
SDevice:        D815EEA2 mainboard
Rev:    02

Device: 00:02.0
Class:  VGA compatible controller
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82815 Chipset Graphics Controller (CGC)
SVendor:        Intel Corporation
SDevice:        D815EEA2 Mainboard
Rev:    02

Device: 00:1e.0
Class:  PCI bridge
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82801 PCI Bridge
Rev:    02

Device: 00:1f.0
Class:  ISA bridge
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82801BA ISA Bridge (LPC)
Rev:    02

Device: 00:1f.1
Class:  IDE interface
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82801BA IDE U100 Controller
SVendor:        Intel Corporation
SDevice:        D815EEA2 mainboard
Rev:    02
ProgIf: 80

Device: 00:1f.2
Class:  USB Controller
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82801BA/BAM USB Controller #1
SVendor:        Intel Corporation
SDevice:        D815EEA2 mainboard
Rev:    02

Device: 00:1f.3
Class:  SMBus
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82801BA/BAM SMBus Controller
SVendor:        Intel Corporation
SDevice:        D815EEA2 mainboard
Rev:    02

Device: 00:1f.4
Class:  USB Controller
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82801BA/BAM USB Controller #1
SVendor:        Intel Corporation
SDevice:        D815EEA2 mainboard
Rev:    02

Device: 00:1f.5
Class:  Multimedia audio controller
Vendor: Intel Corporation
Device: 82801BA/BAM AC'97 Audio Controller
SVendor:        Intel Corporation
SDevice:        Unknown device 4532
Rev:    02

Device: 01:0a.0
Class:  Ethernet controller
Vendor: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd.
Device: RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+
SVendor:        Unknown vendor 3030
SDevice:        Unknown device 5032
Rev:    10

Device: 01:0c.0
Class:  VGA compatible controller
Vendor: nVidia Corporation
Device: NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]
Rev:    a1
And last, but not least, the contents (after extensive testing first, and reading the 'man hdparm' page very well) of /etc/rc.d/rc.local

Code:
#!/bin/sh
#
# /etc/rc.d/rc.local:  Local system initialization script.
#
# Put any local startup commands in here.  Also, if you have
# anything that needs to be run at shutdown time you can
# make an /etc/rc.d/rc.local_shutdown script and put those
# commands in there.

hdparm -c3 -u1 -m16 -k1 /dev/hda
hdparm -c3 -u1 -m16 -k1 /dev/hdb
hdparm -c3 -u1 -k1 /dev/hdc
hdparm -c3 -u1 -k1 /dev/hdd
In Slackware 12.0 udma gets set automatically, when also setting it with hdparm, the effect is that you get errors in /var/log, and that udma is reversed to OFF! So I use no udma settings like hdparm -d1(enable dma) -X69(udma5)/-X66(udma2).

Thanks a lot in advance,
Manuel

Edit: Forgot the output of hdparm /dev/hda /dev/hdb /dev/hdc /dev/hdd:

Code:
/dev/hda:
 multcount     = 16 (on)
 IO_support    =  3 (32-bit w/sync)
 unmaskirq     =  1 (on)
 using_dma     =  1 (on)
 keepsettings  =  1 (on)
 readonly      =  0 (off)
 readahead     = 256 (on)
 geometry      = 65535/16/63, sectors = 78165360, start = 0

/dev/hdb:
 multcount     = 16 (on)
 IO_support    =  3 (32-bit w/sync)
 unmaskirq     =  1 (on)
 using_dma     =  1 (on)
 keepsettings  =  1 (on)
 readonly      =  0 (off)
 readahead     = 256 (on)
 geometry      = 30515/255/63, sectors = 490234752, start = 0

/dev/hdc:
 IO_support    =  3 (32-bit w/sync)
 unmaskirq     =  1 (on)
 using_dma     =  1 (on)
 keepsettings  =  1 (on)
 readonly      =  0 (off)
 readahead     = 256 (on)

/dev/hdd:
 IO_support    =  3 (32-bit w/sync)
 unmaskirq     =  1 (on)
 using_dma     =  1 (on)
 keepsettings  =  1 (on)
 readonly      =  0 (off)
 readahead     = 256 (on)
which shows no errors.

Last edited by manuel otto; 05-30-2008 at 04:42 PM.
 
Old 05-30-2008, 04:58 PM   #2
GrapefruiTgirl
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I am certainly not a CD or DVD expert, but from all I have read about burning stuff (under Linux or anything else) leads to the conclusion that faster is rarely better.
Rather than be concerned with getting the maximum burn speed out of your hardware & software, focus instead on getting a GOOd burn, that will be more likely to be read more reliably on a variety of players and readers.

I understand that, especially on older hardware, burning stuff can take a lot of time sometimes, however, investing that extra few minutes can result in a usable disc, vs a 'coaster' as they are often referred to.

AFAIK, regardless what the manufacturer tells you is the maximum burn speed, slower is better.

I generally burn stuff at no more than 4x. Sure, it takes longer, but the deeper burn into the surface of the substrate in the media results in a better copy of the data, and when I burn at 4x, I can virtually guarantee that my disc will be good unless I have screwed something up elsewhere

If you have 32bit IO turned on, and have DMA enabled, that's about the best you can do.

I haven't experienced hdparm acting as you described (turning DMA off when you tell it to turn it on when it is already on) but who knows-- different hardware, different bugs!

Best of success-- and take your time.

Sasha
 
Old 05-30-2008, 05:10 PM   #3
manuel otto
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Sasha, thanks for replying that quickly!

I never burn 'coasters', and the hard- and softwarebuffers that K3B shows never run 'under', not even at the max speed I can do now (around 12 speed).

You say:

Quote:
AFAIK, regardless what the manufacturer tells you is the maximum burn speed, slower is better.
But I also heard opposite information on that issue, so that's why I posted my question: so many people have heard so many different things abiout burning, but I want facts!

Facts, so I can can translate that to my situation.

Not ment as criticism to your reply, any reply is valuable to me!

Quote:
Best of success-- and take your time.
Thank you, I will

Manuel

Edit: P.S. You wrote:

Quote:
Sure, it takes longer, but the deeper burn into the surface of the substrate in the media results in a better copy
It also can be to deep; see it as overexposing a photographic film: some contrast gets lost, and if you overexpose to much, all you get is a completely white photograph, no readable data anymore!

Last edited by manuel otto; 05-30-2008 at 05:13 PM.
 
Old 05-30-2008, 06:11 PM   #4
bgeddy
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Grapefruitgirl is correct - the slower a burn the less demands are made on the hardware and software , so less likely to introduce errors.

Quote:
Edit: P.S. You wrote:

Quote:
Sure, it takes longer, but the deeper burn into the surface of the substrate in the media results in a better copy
It also can be to deep; see it as overexposing a photographic film: some contrast gets lost, and if you overexpose to much, all you get is a completely white photograph, no readable data anymore!
Not sure where you get this from. Data is written synchronously to the disk (i.e. bits are turned off) as they appear in the data stream. Nothing is written for a 1 bit - the laser heats a die sublimate to darken it and encode a 0 leaving it untouched for an 1 bit.

In other words the binary value 00101010 corresponds to laser on,on,off,on,of,on,of,on when burning.

The "deeper" the burn i.e. the more opaque the dye sublimate is created than the more effective the process and the easier for a reader to read. Over exposing, as in photography, does not apply.

This is for write once media - re writeable is a slightly different process involving a phase shift compound.

DAO or disk at once simply allows tracks to be placed together rather than introduce a gap that TAO,track at once,creates.

Most burners cannot reliably write at their maximum quoted speed anyway.

So long as you are producing good burns, as Grapefruitgirl said, then all is well. Unless you are mass copying/producing media in which case specialized hardware would be a better choice.

Also the answers you seek may be found by searching... or at least by researching the topic of optical media recording.
 
Old 05-30-2008, 08:53 PM   #5
onebuck
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Hi,

I would like to add that the media type is important when burning a cd/dvd. You should match the media to the burner. Some manufacture match better than others with certain hardware.

You should look at 'Brand vs Media ID' along with 'Media FAQ'. A lot of people fall into the trap of Brand, something along the lines of Bread. The private label is better! Not always, most times the product is the same and the label is changed to reflect the 'No difference'. Just a swap of the label but no difference in the media other than the stamping.

Quote:
excerpt from media guide;
It is the media ID that is important, as it reveals the disc manufacturer. Unfortunately, this is not written on packaging or anywhere else. Companies want consumers to be oblivious to this sort of behind-the-scenes information. To learn the media ID code, a blank disc must be put into a computer DVD burner drive and the ID read by a special utility. Some burning software reads the code by default (DVD Decrypter, for example, in ISO write mode). There are also a handful of freeware or trialware tools available:

For Windows: DVD Identifier (free), DVDInfo (free), DVDInfoPro (trial)
For Macintosh OS X: DVD Media Inspector (free)
For Linux: dvd+rw-mediainfo (free)

1ST CLASS MEDIA - EXCELLENT DISCS:
Almost flawless burns with 95-100% reliable results. These discs are suited for pretty much anything. They will usually serve as excellent archival quality media, as well as video masters. These discs are often the most expensive DVD media, so be sure to take advantage of sales, when available. (Trivia: The 5 best discs ever created are probably PVC001001, PVC001002, MXLRG02, MCC00RG20 and YUDEN000T02, with exceptional quality burns.)

See the table
 
Old 05-30-2008, 09:42 PM   #6
GrapefruiTgirl
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RE what onebuck stated above:

The manufacturer information, disc composition, and other nifty information coded into the media is often displayed by the Linux 'cdrecord' command, when run in a console.

I'm not sure if there is a specific switch that can be used with the command, but issuing a successful burn command will print the available coded info to the console before starting the burn; if necessary (like if you want to see the info but don't really want to burn anything) just kill the process before the countdown ends.

SVA
 
Old 05-31-2008, 02:00 PM   #7
manuel otto
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Thank you all very much for your replies.

@ bgeddy: I got my information about 'overexposure', like with phothraphic film, I think from a (good) book I read some 10 years ago about cd-burning. It told me that if a (cd) disk is certified for a certain speed, it is best to burn at that speed. So I assumed (wrongly) that this also is true for dvd's...

16x is the max speed the drive can write dvd-r's, but on my system it only gets to 12x or so, so I better write at 8, or even 4 speed then (my drive supports up to 16x).

What would you suggest? 4, or 8 speed? This what dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/hdc says about the dvd-r's:

Code:
INQUIRY:                [HL-DT-ST][DVDRAM GSA-4167B][DL13]
GET [CURRENT] CONFIGURATION:
 Mounted Media:         11h, DVD-R Sequential
 Media ID:              MBI 01RG40  
 Current Write Speed:   16.0x1385=22161KB/s
 Write Speed #0:        16.0x1385=22161KB/s
 Write Speed #1:        16.0x1385=22160KB/s
 Write Speed #2:        8.0x1385=11081KB/s
 Write Speed #3:        8.0x1385=11080KB/s
 Write Speed #4:        4.0x1385=5540KB/s
GET [CURRENT] PERFORMANCE:
 Write Performance:     7.1x1385=9770KB/s@0 -> 16.0x1385=22153KB/s@1961727
                        16.0x1385=22160KB/s@[1961728 -> 2298495]
 Speed Descriptor#0:    02/2298495 R@4.1x1385=5730KB/s W@16.0x1385=22161KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#1:    02/2298495 R@4.1x1385=5730KB/s W@16.0x1385=22160KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#2:    02/2298495 R@4.1x1385=5730KB/s W@8.0x1385=11081KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#3:    02/2298495 R@4.1x1385=5730KB/s W@8.0x1385=11080KB/s
 Speed Descriptor#4:    02/2298495 R@4.1x1385=5730KB/s W@4.0x1385=5540KB/s
READ DVD STRUCTURE[#0h]:
 Media Book Type:       00h, DVD-ROM book [revision 0]
 Legacy lead-out at:    2298496*2KB=4707319808
READ DISC INFORMATION:
 Disc status:           blank
 Number of Sessions:    1
 State of Last Session: empty
 "Next" Track:          1
 Number of Tracks:      1
READ TRACK INFORMATION[#1]:
 Track State:           blank
 Track Start Address:   0*2KB
 Next Writable Address: 0*2KB
 Free Blocks:           2298496*2KB
 Track Size:            2298496*2KB
READ CAPACITY:          0*2048=0
This brings to 'Moser Baer India', on which I read lots of concflicting information (both good and bad).

To make it even more confusing, the box in which the disks (10 times spindles of 10) says 'Verbatim', but on the spindle it says 'made in India for KMP Media LLC'.

I also read somewhere today that some of the MBI media is in fact Verbatim.

(What a big mess this DVD market is...)

You said: "Also the answers you seek may be found by searching... or at least by researching the topic of optical media recording." I did do quite a lot of searching, but most of it some years ago. This searching lead me to Kodak Gold, but as I understand since today, they do not produce themself anymore.

@ onebuck: I have read part of the links you gave me, and it made me a lot wiser. Had no idea it was all this complicated. Still lots of reading to do, though. Have to take my time for that, and not want to understand it all by tomorrow...

Thanks for giving hint to dvd+rw-mediainfo, very valuable!

All the information, and some searching lead me to an online shop in my country (Netherlands), do you think this is a good deal, to me, the newbie I still am, it looks okay.

@ GrapefruiTgirl: cdrecord doesn't display mediainfo for a blank disk, not to me at least, but dvd+rw-mediainfo dis the trick

Do you have any suggestions for a Linux program that can test the quality of a disk? That would be very welcome to test those Kodak dvd's I have, and would be useful in the future too.

A last question: I bought those 100 'Kodak Professional DVD's' cause I wanted them to last a lifetime. Is such a thing realistic for Tayo Yuden?? (30 or 40 years will do fine too).

Thanks again all of you for the replies,
Manuel
 
Old 05-31-2008, 04:18 PM   #8
symatic
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What does this have to do with slackware? I'm not trying to be picky, but I don't see the correlation.
 
Old 05-31-2008, 04:26 PM   #9
manuel otto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by symatic View Post
What does this have to do with slackware? I'm not trying to be picky, but I don't see the correlation.
The initial question was that I couldn't burn at the expected (16x) speed.

I posted it in Slackware because not beeing able to burn at the expected speed could have been very well been a Slackware issue.

Edit: Like with Slackware 10.2 (and the somewhat old kernel Slackware used for a long time) one had to add append="hdc=ide-scsi" to lilo.conf to be able to burn anything higher as 2.4 speed...

At least, I thougt, if it's a system issue, it will be more likely to be solved here.

Later it evolved to something much more general about burning, speed, media, faq's...

Last edited by manuel otto; 05-31-2008 at 06:28 PM.
 
Old 05-31-2008, 09:23 PM   #10
GrapefruiTgirl
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Media burning Q&A (on Slackware FYI)

Quote:
...
...I got my information about 'overexposure', like with phothraphic film, I think from a (good) book I read some 10 years ago about cd-burning. It told me that if a (cd) disk is certified for a certain speed, it is best to burn at that speed. So I assumed (wrongly) that this also is true for dvd's...
Quite possible that in the earlier days of home burners, the above was true (or at least *more* true than it may be today) but then again, it might have been the media and burner makers trying to make people buy faster equipment too.. Who knows..

Quote:
...What would you suggest? 4, or 8 speed? This what dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/hdc says about the dvd-r's:
As earlier suggested, slower is better, within reason. I wouldn't try 1x -- that's a bit ridiculous maybe. But when it comes to (for example) an .ISO image for a Linux CD, or a diagnostic boot CD .ISO, or maybe something like the GParted Live partitioning CD, I never burn faster than 4x.
There have been many cases experienced by many folks, of Linux distro CDs burned fast, and then they do not boot, or won't install, or install but with errors. The problem can be corrected often by slowing down the burn to 2x or 4x or 8x-- whatever works for you depending on how much time you have and whether or not the added burn time is worth it to you to better assure that your disc will be good.

Maybe with music files or something, slight errors or imperfections in a burn will not ever become apparent to your ears (provided they aren't within the program-data area of the CD but rather in the music data), but when it comes to the compressed
data that is in a Linux OS CD or DVD ISO or a movie, a tiny error introduced can bring the reading/installing/playing process to a halt.

Quote:
Thanks for giving hint to dvd+rw-mediainfo, very valuable!
Thanks from me too; I doubt I will use it, as the 'cdrecord' burn commands give me more than enough info about the media, and I don't burn many DVD's, but I am glad to know of that command

Quote:
Do <...> have any suggestions for a Linux program that can test the quality of a disk? That would be very welcome to test those Kodak dvd's I have, and would be useful in the future too.
Do you mean the mfgr quality of the blank discs, right out of the box? Myself, I haven't a clue, if even that can be done without writing *something* to the disc. You may need to wait 30-100 years to see how the discs hold up over tine lol. In any event, as for "quality" (read: integrity) of burned ISO's, never neglect verifying the checksum of the burned disc against the checksum of the original ISO file; that is one small favor we can do ourselves.


Hope this gives you a little more to go on, and isn't getting redundant; clarity is always appreciated IMO

Cheerios!
Sasha
 
Old 06-01-2008, 01:01 PM   #11
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuel otto View Post
dak Professional DVD's' cause I wanted them to last a lifetime. Is such a thing realistic for Tayo Yuden?? (30 or 40 years will do fine too).
Tayo Yuden are the best disk you can buy, better even than the ones with gold instead of silver film.

Also, never trust what is reported by the drive and the disk. Incompatibilities between disk and drive and low quality media will make it absolutely impossible to burn at the specified speed in some cases. Try different speeds and see which one works best.

Personally, I always burn at the lowest speed available. Why ? Because it'll take me longer to load another disk and burn it if the burn fails, and because disks tend to last slightly longer and maintain their data if burned at lower speed. I also always check if the checksums match before saying it's a good burn.
 
Old 06-01-2008, 04:13 PM   #12
manuel otto
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@ GrapefruiTgirl: About burning at the speed the disk says: I don't remember it all that well, after 10 years. Might have read it in a book, or in an online faq. There was also graphs with it, that showed the numeber of errors at different speeds, that's why I was so convinced of it...

I never had an unbootable disk, but I had some errors a few times during an install. It's clear that a single missing byte in th ewronf place can mean disaster, thanks for pointing that out!

And yes, I think video-dvd's allow for some error, maybe also audio-cd's, quite pausable.

You wrote: "Do you mean the mfgr quality of the blank discs, right out of the box? Myself, I haven't a clue, if even that can be done without writing *something* to the disc. You may need to wait 30-100 years to see how the discs hold up over tine lol. In any event, as for "quality" (read: integrity) of burned ISO's, never neglect verifying the checksum of the burned disc against the checksum of the original ISO file; that is one small favor we can do ourselves."

I think I ment something different about veryfieng quality of disks, not blank, but burned. I had some program under Win98, which tested the burned disk. Not with checksum though, just the wuality of the burn, cann't remember the name, will start the old Windows machine now! After 3 or 4 months not touching it

The program is called 'Nero CD Speed', and it can perform many checks, including 'CD quality check', which out of curiousity I'm running now on a maybe 8 year old Mitsui SG Ultra (MAM) Silver CD-R 24x (burned at 24x).

It says 'no errors' Such a programs is useful to see if a disk starts to degrade, even if it's still completely readable.

And from now on I will use the checksum!

Yes, you, and the other peole responded helped me to learn some crucial things about burning dvd's, thanks!


I will experiment with the next burn
 
Old 06-01-2008, 04:13 PM   #13
manuel otto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Tayo Yuden are the best disk you can buy, better even than the ones with gold instead of silver film.
Very happy that I know that now

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Also, never trust what is reported by the drive and the disk. Incompatibilities between disk and drive and low quality media will make it absolutely impossible to burn at the specified speed in some cases. Try different speeds and see which one works best.
I will, thanks. Have had very little issues though with my LG burner with many different types of disk (bad media, bought in supermarket cause the data on it was not important).

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
Personally, I always burn at the lowest speed available. Why ? Because it'll take me longer to load another disk and burn it if the burn fails, and because disks tend to last slightly longer and maintain their data if burned at lower speed. I also always check if the checksums match before saying it's a good burn.
I will experiment with the speeds (will at least not burn full speed), and from now on will always us e checksum.

P.S. Nobody got any idea on expected lifetime of a Tayo Yuden disk (the one I mentioned) earlier? Considering that I will store them in a dry, dark, cool place?
 
  


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