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Old 03-19-2017, 02:46 PM   #31
volkerdi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcore View Post
It's easy to remove if you don't have KDE, just get rid of the libpulse package and see what breaks.
I think on my machine it was only mpg123 that depended on it, but I only install like 20% of the system libs and build custom XFCE on that.
The packages currently containing binaries or libraries that link to libpulse are as follows:

MPlayer, alsa-plugins, audacious-plugins, ffmpeg, gst-plugins-good0, gst-plugins-good, kde-runtime, kmix, libao, libcanberra, mpg123, pamixer, pavucontrol, phonon, pulseaudio (obviously), sox, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, and xine-lib.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:10 PM   #32
enorbet
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Thank you, elcore, but I'm afraid I'm rather fond of KDE or more specifically several KDE apps which substantially "raises the price of poker" for me. I suspect that ppr_kut is quite accurate that it is not going away and will in all likelihood grow as a dependency, much to my chagrin. It's strength as a centralized manager is also it's weakness in that it is getting more difficult with time to simply assign a different manager, like the more limited ALSA, to specific apps, let alone remove it altogether.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:55 PM   #33
the3dfxdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Yes, I do understand a need to vent frustration, but do you have to do that with name calling? Everything else in that post was venting your frustration, but you had to end it with calling it a POS. Everybody already knew you weren't happy with it based on the previous information on the post, but you had remained relatively professional through it... until the end. Can we just stop that? Why can't we just discuss the removal without losing professionalism?
Talking about professionalism:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppr:kut
First time I hear about this, but also the first time someone actually bothered to research his problems, so thank you for that!
Extreme sarcasm? Or...?

No wonder users vent.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:39 PM   #34
ttk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
Extreme sarcasm?
I took his words at face value. Users who complain about problems without digging into causes or providing pertinent system details are extremely frustrating, whereas users who do due diligence can make the difference between a problem getting prioritized or moved to the bottom of the list.

ppr:kut's post came across to me as something like: "Yaay finally someone gives me something I can actually work with! I might be able to work on this problem now!"

My interpretation only; apologies in advance if I've totally misread the situation.
 
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Old 03-19-2017, 05:56 PM   #35
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
Extreme sarcasm? Or...?

No wonder users vent.
Do you have any reason other than projection to believe that @ppr:kut was sarcastic? I don't remember any of his/her posts being that way; perhaps you remember some where he/she was.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 06:34 PM   #36
the3dfxdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Cranium View Post
Do you have any reason other than projection to believe that @ppr:kut was sarcastic? I don't remember any of his/her posts being that way; perhaps you remember some where he/she was.
I was asking if the quote was sarcasm, why are you looking for something else? I'm not expected to believe that selfprogrammed is the only one that 'researches' his pulseaudio problems. I can fully believe this is a report he is interested in though? I sure hope has better attitude about other reports as a dev despite as the comment suggests.

If professionalism is important, it should be even more as a contributor.
 
Old 03-19-2017, 09:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
If professionalism is important, it should be even more as a contributor.
A little bit of sarcasm (if that's what it was) is quite a bit different from calling something a POS...
 
Old 03-19-2017, 09:37 PM   #38
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
A little bit of sarcasm (if that's what it was) is quite a bit different from calling something a POS...
OK I kept quiet after your 2nd post about how much you were offended by "POS" out of a desire to keep On Topic. However since you have chosen yet a 3rd admonishment then let me just say that in my world, professionalism != PC politeness, especially when the term "politeness" so loosely includes word choice. It cracks me up that some people are offended at (to keep it lighter) "garbage" but consider it perfectly elegant to say "gar BAGE' " as if even pretending it is some other language and culture makes it acceptable.

My insincere apologies that I was brought up to "cut to the chase" and look at the meaning, rather than the symbol, in the interest of unobfuscated accuracy and communication. My sincere empathy that anyone took it as "blunt force trauma" but I am singularly unconcerned with what I consider to be silly games, especially when those games are obstacles to solutions. Say what you mean and keep it direct to the point. That's how I roll. If that is irretrievably offensive to some high degree, I have no problem with being ignored by those who indulge in "tilting at windmills".

Last edited by enorbet; 03-19-2017 at 09:39 PM.
 
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:58 AM   #39
elcore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volkerdi View Post
The packages currently containing binaries or libraries that link to libpulse are as follows:

MPlayer, alsa-plugins, audacious-plugins, ffmpeg, gst-plugins-good0, gst-plugins-good, kde-runtime, kmix, libao, libcanberra, mpg123, pamixer, pavucontrol, phonon, pulseaudio (obviously), sox, xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin, and xine-lib.
Thanks boss, I will look into it.

MPlayer, ffmpeg, mpg123, I recompile them to avoid dependency and also to support more formats.
alsa-plugins, libao, xine-lib, I have these installed, but apparently there was nothing wrong so I have not rebuilt them.

The rest of the listed packages is mostly KDE related and I don't use or install that anymore.
KDE4 is not modular enough, my experience is that entire kdebase breaks without libpulse and the only reason for that is because audio notifications are not a module.
QT devs wrote a blog recently about modules and the direction they will take, so I guess there's a chance for KDE to decouple some things in the future.
 
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:02 AM   #40
ppr:kut
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
Talking about professionalism:



Extreme sarcasm? Or...?

No wonder users vent.
No sarcasm, but just to be more clear, I was talking about pulseaudio problems specifically not general problems. From my memory this was truely the first instance where a user with frustrating pulseaudio problems presented actionable intel on what's going on/wrong. It's perfectly possible that there were others that I didn't read or didn't remember reading. If so, mea culpa.
 
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:21 AM   #41
imitheos
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Pardon my ignorance, but if i understood correctly, pulseaudio is mandatory for bluez > 5 so that people can use their hearing aids and other bluetooth devices. Is that correct ?

Assuming that the https://github.com/Arkq/bluez-alsa project does not provide the necessary functionality and cannot be used to rid us of pulseaudio, can't the pulseaudio be linked only to the bluez stack and every other package that has optional pulseaudio support like kmix, ffmpeg and others that Patrick mentioned be compiled with "--disable-pulseaudio" or relevant flag ?

Since the pulseaudio daemon autostarts for every user when needed, wouldn't this scenario allow the bluetooth devices to work correctly and allow everyone else that doesn't have bluetooth devices not to install the pulseaudio package ?
 
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:02 AM   #42
allend
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This is definitely NOT my area of expertise, but I did come across this. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...o_through_JACK
As I read it, would need to recompile pulseaudio with jack support. The Arch script may offer some ideas. https://git.archlinux.org/svntogit/p...ges/pulseaudio
The SlackBuild for jack2 appears to add the necessary dbus support. https://www.slackbuilds.org/reposito...2/audio/jack2/
For more on module-jackdbus-connect https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Sof...les/#index44h3
Of course, I am probably way off base.

Last edited by allend; 03-20-2017 at 08:08 AM.
 
Old 03-20-2017, 08:23 AM   #43
bassmadrigal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
OK I kept quiet after your 2nd post about how much you were offended by "POS" out of a desire to keep On Topic. However since you have chosen yet a 3rd admonishment then let me just say that in my world, professionalism != PC politeness, especially when the term "politeness" so loosely includes word choice. It cracks me up that some people are offended at (to keep it lighter) "garbage" but consider it perfectly elegant to say "gar BAGE' " as if even pretending it is some other language and culture makes it acceptable.

My insincere apologies that I was brought up to "cut to the chase" and look at the meaning, rather than the symbol, in the interest of unobfuscated accuracy and communication. My sincere empathy that anyone took it as "blunt force trauma" but I am singularly unconcerned with what I consider to be silly games, especially when those games are obstacles to solutions. Say what you mean and keep it direct to the point. That's how I roll. If that is irretrievably offensive to some high degree, I have no problem with being ignored by those who indulge in "tilting at windmills".
I'm not sure you understand what political correctness is. Per Google:

Quote:
the avoidance, often considered as taken to extremes, of forms of expression or action that are perceived to exclude, marginalize, or insult groups of people who are socially disadvantaged or discriminated against.
In fact, I was not offended by the use of POS and I never said I was offended (reread my posts if you missed that) . Swear words don't bother me. But when they're used in a professional environment, it can be frowned upon. My desire to not see name calling in the main support forum for Slackware has nothing to do with political correctness. It has to do with how we, the users of Slackware, come across to people seeking support. Think if you were to go into the Apple Store or Best Buy's Geek Squad (or insert other location here) and you bring them a phone to fix, and they say something along the lines of, "Oh, you got this POS? What a hunk of junk." How would that come across to you? Do you think you'd be as likely to continue using them as a service?

Since we are pretty much the face of the majority of Slackware support to the internet, it would be nice to not detract from what we provide by calling things POS. You can certainly vent your dissatisfaction of a product without resorting to petty name calling (and as I said, the rest of your initial post did just that). There is no issue discussing the removal of software from Slackware, but let's just keep it at that. FreeSlack does a good job at that.

I'm sorry. I didn't intend for this to be such a big deal. That is why I kept my request short and sweet and at the end of a post where I tried to provide help.
 
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:12 AM   #44
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Swear words don't bother me. But when they're used in a professional environment, it can be frowned upon.
Sorry to interject, but this is not a "professional environment". It's a Linux community forum, populated overwhelmingly by volunteers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Think if you were to go into the Apple Store or Best Buy's Geek Squad (or insert other location here) and you bring them a phone to fix, and they say something along the lines of, "Oh, you got this POS? What a hunk of junk." How would that come across to you? Do you think you'd be as likely to continue using them as a service?
That's a very different scenario, users are not customers/consumers and those providing any help/responding to posts are not employees with customer services training.

No offense intended, but you may be nitpicking here - and referring to a piece of software as a "POS" is not name calling by anyone's definition - as that would usually mean targeting a person(s).

Most users/potential users are mature and level headed enough to be able to judge software on it's merits, usefulness and how well it fulfills their needs, not from some off the cuff comments and opinions being expressed on a forum.


Last edited by cynwulf; 03-20-2017 at 09:14 AM.
 
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:29 AM   #45
Richard Cranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the3dfxdude View Post
I was asking if the quote was sarcasm, why are you looking for something else? I'm not expected to believe that selfprogrammed is the only one that 'researches' his pulseaudio problems. I can fully believe this is a report he is interested in though? I sure hope has better attitude about other reports as a dev despite as the comment suggests.

If professionalism is important, it should be even more as a contributor.
Hell, I get freaking paid professional developers whose initial bug reports are pretty much "I tried to do X and it didn't work." No logs, no detailed description of what they were doing, and no indication of the versions of the code with which they are trying to "do X". Remember, these are people who manage to debug the stuff that they write.

So, yeah, I think in a public forum such as this, where the people asking for help might not have debugged a software problem in their entire life, that @ppr:kut so rarely gets enough detail about the problem without having to pull teeth that he might comment such as he did.

You, OTOH, appear to be letting your dislike of pulseaudio spill into your perception of others and their intentions.
 
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