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View Poll Results: What is your age range?
<20 4 1.04%
21-30 26 6.74%
31-40 104 26.94%
41-50 98 25.39%
51-60 73 18.91%
61-70 61 15.80%
71-80 18 4.66%
81+ 2 0.52%
Voters: 386. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2019, 06:22 AM   #211
ehartman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeebra View Post
However, the most impressive thing from this poll is that we have two people who are 81 years + right here on the forum, using Slackware. Salutations to them!
And even 4 (at the moment) under 20, so some younger people are attracted to Slackware still.
 
Old 08-20-2019, 12:58 PM   #212
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There was a thread today on 4chan's tech board about age vs distro. The thread's now been deleted, but these were the results at the end. They give an interesting overview of what the younger crowd uses:

Quote:
<20

Arch [10]
Debian
Elementary
Fedora [2]
FreeBSD
Gentoo [2]
Kubuntu
OpenSUSE
Solus
Ubuntu
Ubuntu Budgie
Ubuntu MATE
Void [2]
Windows 7

21-30

Arch [3]
Crux
Debian [4]
Elementary
Fedora [4]
Manjaro [5]
Ubuntu
Ubuntu Budgie
Windows 7
Windows 10
Void
Xubuntu [3]

31-40

CentOS
Debian [2]
Fedora [2]
Linux Mint [2]
Manjaro
Ubuntu MATE [2]
Windows 7
Windows 10
Xubuntu

40+

Debian
LFS
Linux Mint
Slackware
Windows 7
Windows 10
Most staggering, apart from the near-absence of Slackware, is the popularity of Arch among younger techies and its subsequent disappearance into the 30s bracket. I imagine that yes, it's looked on as a cool OS, but over time people just want to get on with things and not have to mess about with its foibles.

Last edited by Lysander666; 08-20-2019 at 01:01 PM.
 
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Old 08-20-2019, 02:50 PM   #213
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Younger millenials want all point & click. They're missing essential training on being a kid - how to fix things, how to do something dangerous without breaking your neck, how to type. So the demand for slackware will drop in decades to come unless it goes all point & clicky. Ugh!
 
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:57 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
Younger millenials want all point & click. They're missing essential training on being a kid - how to fix things, how to do something dangerous without breaking your neck, how to type. So the demand for slackware will drop in decades to come unless it goes all point & clicky. Ugh!
Hrm. I don't know about that. Granted, my nieces aren't a statistically relevant sample, but they adapt to tech way faster than I do. (I didn't really grow up with computers, and only started seriously using them during my doctorate...so way later in life than probably most people on this board.) One of my nieces taught herself how to do woodworking, and the other's really good at lockpicking. The youngest two (12 years younger than the oldest two) are pretty geeky about their interests, as well. (In that they will just go off and research something that's interesting.) I think if they had a need, they'd pick up linux quicker than I did, since they've had to adapt to tech in a way I didn't, if that makes sense.
 
Old 08-21-2019, 01:24 AM   #215
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It is a good sign, for me, to see Slackware out of mainstream for the youth. Further it is a good sign too, to see few of those youth still discovering Slackware.

Nowhere in PV's agenda was, nor should be, "hitting main stream", and that's just good.

It is heartwarming, tho, that Slackware found it's way into the 40s top 10 on that thread. 40s are the "seen all", and that can't be seen but as a compliment to a distro's sanity IMHO.

Outside of that, i can't agree for the objective of Slackware, or us as the community, to be attracting people by any age. I can agree OTOH for the objective to be attracting people by need, sanity and spirit of mutual collaboration. This however does not discriminate newcomers by age at all...

May we all stay slacky - to a sane degree
 
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Old 08-21-2019, 04:03 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCerovec
It is a good sign, for me, to see Slackware out of mainstream for the youth. Further it is a good sign too, to see few of those youth still discovering Slackware.

Nowhere in PV's agenda was, nor should be, "hitting main stream", and that's just good.
Agreed. My comments were not all-inclusive but reflect the viewpoint from this side of the pond. It's bad parenting. My kids aren't that way either, but this is the general trend. The attention span isn't there. Why look up a dictionary if you can google it? Why develop a skill when you can watch a youtube tutorial? I was astonished to find the number of households without a single book. But every kid has his smartphone, which is his education. Indeed, a taxi driver bemoaned the lack of conversation in his cab, because nobody says much, just buries their head in their phones. It takes maturity to decide to be different. Young folks are cut off from achieving it. To quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm Muggeridge
Only dead fish go with the flow; Swim against the tide.
None of that suits a hands-on distro like slackware.
 
Old 08-21-2019, 10:34 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
Agreed. My comments were not all-inclusive but reflect the viewpoint from this side of the pond. It's bad parenting. My kids aren't that way either, but this is the general trend. The attention span isn't there. Why look up a dictionary if you can google it? Why develop a skill when you can watch a youtube tutorial? I was astonished to find the number of households without a single book. But every kid has his smartphone, which is his education. Indeed, a taxi driver bemoaned the lack of conversation in his cab, because nobody says much, just buries their head in their phones. It takes maturity to decide to be different. Young folks are cut off from achieving it. To quote

None of that suits a hands-on distro like slackware.
This reminds me of this picture. People are anti-social when certain situations. Very few people want to chat up the random person next to them on the bus, subway, train car, or airplane. The reality is that every generation will have people who want to dig in and learn things, while others want to skate by.

If we look at technology, the generalization is that the older generations don't like tech and don't want to learn new things, while the younger generation is quick to pick up technology and find interesting and new ways to use it. This disregards some of the older generation that developed the tech the younger generation is using and also disregards the some of the younger generation who still don't know how to use spell check.

We can play this game back and forth, but each generation has its people who will be ideal for using Slackware and each generation has its people who will be ideal for Windows or Mac -- plus all the people who fall in between.

Yes, Slackware may not be popular with the younger crowds, but how much of that is because they aren't interested in it vs they don't know about it? When Pat broke the news about the Slackware Store ripping him off and it ended up on reddit or slashdot, there were a lot of replies surprised that it was still even around. As we all know, Slackware is still alive and flourishing, but if they're following the news or tech sites, they may not even be aware that Slackware is still chugging along. Or if they are aware it is around, how many think it is old and outdated (which is exaggerated when they see the latest release is from 3 years ago -- even though it has been continually patched and -current is moving along at a brisk pace). As others have said, there's quite a few popular distros that aren't just "point and click".

I fall into a weird category where I'm not really a millennial and not really Gen X, although, by most standards, I'm a millennial (born in 1983). I consider myself a Xennial But I look at my younger brothers and various nieces and nephews and I'm not worried for our future. They are smart and quick on their feet. They are adept and picking up new things and thinking out of the box.

It's normal for generations to worry about the future generations taking over, but this has been ongoing since the dawn of man. And I bet our future generations will worry about their young generations.
 
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:56 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
If we look at technology, the generalization is that the older generations don't like tech and don't want to learn new things, while the younger generation is quick to pick up technology and find interesting and new ways to use it. This disregards some of the older generation that developed the tech the younger generation is using and also disregards the some of the younger generation who still don't know how to use spell check.
It all depends on what you mean by "liking tech". I think young people nowadays trust tech in a way that my generation doesn't. They are happy using very advanced technology because it's easy to use and they regard it as essentially benevolent. Now I like Linux precisely because I don't trust tech and want as little of it in my life as possible. That's why I use a desktop with a proper keyboard and mouse, not a laptop or a touchscreen device. I need systems that I can understand and that I can trust not to do things behind my back. Otherwise I get panicky. I've always thought it rather comical that liking Linux (and nowadays using Slackware) makes me look like a hacker when I'm actually just the reverse.
 
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:33 PM   #219
Mechanikx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
Or if they are aware it is around, how many think it is old and outdated (which is exaggerated when they see the latest release is from 3 years ago -- even though it has been continually patched and -current is moving along at a brisk pace)...
Another common misconception about Slackware is it doesn't have a package manager. This too could be affecting the younger generation's decisions.
 
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:52 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
It all depends on what you mean by "liking tech". I think young people nowadays trust tech in a way that my generation doesn't. They are happy using very advanced technology because it's easy to use and they regard it as essentially benevolent. Now I like Linux precisely because I don't trust tech and want as little of it in my life as possible. That's why I use a desktop with a proper keyboard and mouse, not a laptop or a touchscreen device. I need systems that I can understand and that I can trust not to do things behind my back. Otherwise I get panicky. I've always thought it rather comical that liking Linux (and nowadays using Slackware) makes me look like a hacker when I'm actually just the reverse.
There are certainly security conscious people in every generation as well just as there are people who don't really care as long as the basic security is there. I don't care about car alarms, home alarms, encryption, requiring a password when sitting at my desktop or laptop, etc. I do the minimal to make sure I'm covered from the simple attacks. I don't leave things visible in the car. I keep my front lights on in my house. I'm not worried about the people in the house getting onto my computers and causing problems. I don't keep sensitive information on my phone.

I don't really have an innate distrust of tech, maybe because it's already proven itself as broken. It is virtually impossible to stay away from potentially contaminated tech (see Intel's ME firmware and all the Spectre/Meltdown stuff, plus all the closed source firmware that exists for virtually any device). My dad, while pretty tech conscious, doesn't really care about security implications of software/hardware. He probably has no clue about Spectre/Meltdown unless it happened to be on the 10pm news. Then I see people in high school who have tape over their cameras, worried someone is spying on them (whether that be Facebook secretly recording stuff or the NSA). My wife, who is definitely a millennial, would always close the slider on my webcam on my laptop, where I'd not really care.

Maybe I'm just a pessimist/realist in regards to security/anonymity. Google probably already knows everything there is to know about me, so why make my life more difficult by trying to cut them out of my life. I prefer Chrome, Android, Play Store, GBoard, Gmail, etc. I've used other hardware and programs and I just prefer the ones that I use. I've only encrypted my phone when it was automatically done in Android. I've only used a lock/fingerprint to lock my device when it was required by certain software. My unlock pattern is simple, my pin on my work iPhone (they only offer iPhones and you can't BYOD) is as simple as they allow. My password on my work email is 4 characters (although, that's also secured by my fingerprint). I stopped using Facebook (although, I still have an account, I just hardly ever log on) because of being annoyed on what people posted, not because of their tracking (although, I did uninstall the Facebook and Messenger apps before I stopped using Facebook due to their resource usage)

I am a person of convenience. I don't like it when technology gets in the way of me doing what I want to do. I used Slackware because it provides me the control and convenience of running what I want to run and changing what I want to change. I like the fact things are open source because it allows me to tweak various things (usually in the build scripts, since I am not familiar enough with most languages to really make a difference elsewhere). I like it that I have control over updating software, and I can update to software outside of the official packages extremely easily. I don't necessarily run open source because it is more secure (although, that is a nice side benefit).

I have to use Windows for work (and I used to need to run Windows for school) and I can get by with it fine, but there are a lot of annoyances that don't exist in Linux/Slackware (for me, I'm sure there are a lot of annoyances in running Linux and/or Slackware for other users).

I just feel at home with Slackware.

It just goes back to there are going to be security minded people in every generation just like there are going to be "I don't care who knows what" in every generation. I feel like I'm comfortably in the middle.
 
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:06 PM   #221
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@bassmadrigal
With the risk of repeating myself (I believe I already provided this talk in the past here on LQ):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQJC2MMB8nA

Last edited by abga; 08-21-2019 at 11:06 PM. Reason: pats = past
 
Old 08-21-2019, 09:13 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
@bassmadrigal
With the risk of repeating myself (I believe I already provided this talk in the pats here on LQ):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQJC2MMB8nA
I wouldn't be surprised if it is posted, but I haven't watched it (I rarely have time to watch the short videos I'm subscribed to on youtube, let alone a 20 minute long Ted talk). I'm typically working 12 hour days and still trying to find time to spend with the wife and dogs (it's a good thing we don't have kids yet). (I'm actually working right now and reading/replying to posts on the forum when I'm waiting on the computer... our system is horribly inefficient, but then that's the government for you.)

Last edited by bassmadrigal; 08-21-2019 at 10:33 PM. Reason: somehow I missed writing that I haven't watched it -- sometimes I think my brain is fried
 
Old 08-21-2019, 09:24 PM   #223
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While reading your post I just recalled Bruce Schneier's talk, presenting how flawed people are (me included, but at least I'm trying). Besides, I didn't know about Xennials, I'm kind of Gen X but I like how Xennials sounds..
So I'm a Xennial in Denial!
 
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Old 08-22-2019, 09:17 AM   #224
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Can you please mark your options in logscale? I see I'm quickly falling to the bottom.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 02:03 AM   #225
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmadrigal View Post
[snip]
If we look at technology, the generalization is that the older generations don't like tech and don't want to learn new things, while the younger generation is quick to pick up technology and find interesting and new ways to use it. This disregards some of the older generation that developed the tech the younger generation is using and also disregards the some of the younger generation who still don't know how to use spell check.
[snip]
Tihs muusn't bee treue on al Teames!
 
  


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