A very interesting post on the Debian forum regarding its future and connections with RedHat.

Originally Posted by ChuangTzu I think things like this are disturbing them as well: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/...n-windows.html

Just shows that neither ubuntu or microsoft actually know what they're doing, as ubuntu's default shell is DASH not BASH!
Or maybe no one at ubuntu actually uses ubuntu.

Originally Posted by coldbeer I've heard that since I was a kid. Fortunately my much older brother gave me the best advice I've ever had: "No matter what you do for a living, you're going to end up hating it. So you might as well pick something where you're going to make a lot of money. At least then you can afford to do what you like."

You will end up hating everything equally, irrespective of what you do? Doesn't seem to pass muster. If you can see some value or meaning in whatever it is that you do, if you're genuinely interested in it, if it connects you with other people who value what you do, or if you believe that it's worthwhile yourself (which are not choices based on monetary concern), that's going to offer consolation and provide some spirit even if the work becomes tiresome. Whatever the work is, you're probably going to spend most of your life doing it, so if the purpose is just to make money to get away from it, well, that's pretty clearly a losing battle. Hating most of your life and going skiing every couple of months doesn't sound like a good recommendation.

Even working at a dull job, if all the other people pull together and make some community and try and have some fun, it can be ok. If everyone is rolling around thinking how much they hate it and they just want to get away to do the good things (whatever they are), well that is just making a bad situation even worse. Anyway, just my thoughts

Originally Posted by drgibbon You will end up hating everything equally, irrespective of what you do?

Almost, yes. Since most jobs are for profit-making enterprises (even many of those in the public sector) you will be extremely frustrated and very badly paid if you're even attempting to help anyone for a living. Sure, there are some jobs worse than others and some employers worse than others but work is, like hunting and preparing animals, a way of doing something unpleasant to put food on the table. I have met a great many people in my life so far and very, very few enjoy their jobs and very, very many are hard-working and intelligent.

There's a reason that it is called "work" versus "happy fun time".

To put it a slightly different way: Who do you know that would be more than happy to clean out sewers for free? (And I write that knowing that operational sewer systems is a very large part of why we don't have massive die-offs due to cholera so much.)

Originally Posted by Richard Cranium There's a reason that it is called "work" versus "happy fun time".

Indeed.

Originally Posted by 273 I completely disagree. One thing that life has taught me is that some people are just lucky. That is not to say that people who do well don't work hard or deserve the fruits of their labour -- just that, more often than not, the people who do well happen to be in the right place at the right time. To take an extreme example I don't deny that Bill Gates is a hard-working, intelligent man but I bet there's a guy right now living in squalor in the US or Europe who's just as intelligent and hard working. For the rest of us things aren't that far apart but there's still an awful lot of luck involved.

I don't believe in luck.

I'm not a fan of Bill Gates, but he *did* have the guts to offer something for sale that didn't even exist yet, while Gary Kildall, who had *already done the work*, was off flying in his private plane rather than meeting with IBM. Opportunity missed due to lack of effort.

Being in 'the right place at the right time' simply means that your level of effort has been reduced.

Originally Posted by OregonJim I don't believe in luck. I'm not a fan of Bill Gates, but he *did* have the guts to offer something for sale that didn't even exist yet, while Gary Kildall, who had *already done the work*, was off flying in his private plane rather than meeting with IBM. Opportunity missed due to lack of effort.

So if he offered the same product to somebody else, or a few years later he'd still have been as rich?
You may well consider yourself a useless, idiotic, lazy, pathetic slob but I do not -- I think you're a hard-working, normal person who's not been lucky enough. I consider myself lazy, by the way, so this isn't sour grapes, just observation.

Originally Posted by OregonJim I don't believe in luck.

What do you call it when people win the lottery then?

Originally Posted by Keith Hedger Just shows that neither ubuntu or microsoft actually know what they're doing, as ubuntu's default shell is DASH not BASH! Or maybe no one at ubuntu actually uses ubuntu.

It's not idiotic to use a stripped down shell for script execution (that would be ash and dash) and another one for interaction with humans (bash and maybe ksh).

Or I don't understand your point, which is likely.

Originally Posted by rkelsen What do you call it when people win the lottery then?

A statistical certainty, of course.

Originally Posted by OregonJim A statistical certainty, of course.

Meaning that those who woe worked harder?

Originally Posted by 273 You may well consider yourself a useless, idiotic, lazy, pathetic slob but I do not -- I think you're a hard-working, normal person who's not been lucky enough. I consider myself lazy, by the way, so this isn't sour grapes, just observation.

I don't consider either of us to be any of those things. I spent most of my career doing what I love. And now, in semi-retirement, I'm still doing what I love. I didn't get any 'lucky breaks' as you would call them. Luck is not part of the equation - deliberate choices are. Most people embark on their journey hoping to do something they love while getting paid for it. Then, as life goes on, they find themselves in a situation that is 'good enough', and stay there. They may love, hate, or be indifferent to what they're doing, but the money is 'good enough' so it gives them an excuse to stop pursuing. We all have that tendency - it's human nature. But some have the drive to advance further, and some do not.

Someone mentioned sewer workers - I'm sure there are many people who would consider that a job they would 'love'. That's the great thing about human diversity. Some people are satisfied doing a job that benefits others - no matter what the details of that job entail. Others would rather find something to complain about, even if they have a 'dream job'. It all depends on your world view, and whether or not you are at peace with it.

Originally Posted by 273 Meaning that those who woe worked harder?

Of course not. None of them 'worked' at all.

Originally Posted by OregonJim I don't consider either of us to be any of those things. I spent most of my career doing what I love. And now, in semi-retirement, I'm still doing what I love. I didn't get any 'lucky breaks' as you would call them. Luck is not part of the equation - deliberate choices are. Most people embark on their journey hoping to do something they love while getting paid for it. Then, as life goes on, they find themselves in a situation that is 'good enough', and stay there. They may love, hate, or be indifferent to what they're doing, but the money is 'good enough' so it gives them an excuse to stop pursuing. We all have that tendency - it's human nature. But some have the drive to advance further, and some do not. Someone mentioned sewer workers - I'm sure there are many people who would consider that a job they would 'love'. That's the great thing about human diversity. Some people are satisfied doing a job that benefits others - no matter what the details of that job entail. Others would rather find something to complain about, even if they have a 'dream job'. It all depends on your world view, and whether or not you are at peace with it.

Unless you earned more than Bill Gates you are, by your criteria, useless, lazy and ineffectual. You made deliberate choices yet, lazy as you are, you failed to discover the Higgs boson or earn enough to buy your own island. At least you cured cancer, eh? That should help, that and your pension that's guaranteed by every bank on earth...

Sorry, yes, I am being silly but you're living in a dream world if you think that luck doesn't come into it. As another, extreme, example do you think those starving to death in the world are doing so because they are lazy? If not then please work that back to everybody else in the world's situation. Yes, of course, "making the best of things" and working hard are good ways of having a better life but they are, by no means, all there is to it and for the majority of people in the world jobs are something that allows them to make money and nothing more and this is simply because there aren't enough jobs to go around never mind enough of the ones which allow one to be happy.

I really, really love what I do, but concur that there's some luck involved getting there.

Hard work is necessary, but not sufficient. Without hard work you won't get there, but working hard is no guarantee of success.

Over the years I've worked with a lot of people who also loved what they did, so it's not like it's unattainable. Even if the odds aren't that great, what are you going to do? Giving up only guarantees failure. It's better to take your shot, and if you miss take another shot.