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Old 08-30-2018, 04:22 PM   #16
bifferos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninikos View Post
Well, I think the vms command will work with very little effort. Some path adjustments maybe are needed for the init script. Even if I am using this for two years now, I haven't tested it with any other distributions. Maybe this will be an excuse to try nested kvm.
Nested KVM is cool, you shouldn't need an excuse to try it! It's interesting to see how the performance of different things degrades when stuff is nested and it's much bigger than for the one-level deep virtualisation. I used it for trying out ESXi and Proxmox, although you often have to find settings both in the guest and the host to let nesting work properly. BTW: Someone really should remake this for KVM :-).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninikos View Post
I was very temped to write this in python. Python dictionaries are much more easy to work with than bash associative arrays. The main reasons that I left it in bash until now are that bash can be very easily customized and as it is, it has minimal dependencies.
You should never be 'tempted' to write something in Python but decide on Bash. Python is superior to Bash in pretty much every way, and unlike 10 years ago I think enough people either know Python or at least are prepared to take a shot at learning enough to hack your script if needs be. Don't get me wrong, I love Bash for init scripts, or embedded stuff, but if you're already firing up a virtual machine you're not going to be worried about the memory overhead of Python, one of the few reasons for not using it. I also think start-up time is no longer an issue as it was a decade ago.
 
Old 08-30-2018, 07:34 PM   #17
ninikos
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Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Maybe you shouldn't have called it vms. There's an operating system called that (used to be used on DEC Vaxes).
Well ... vms means so many things besides "Virtual Memory System". Like "Vibration Monitoring System", or "Volcanogenic Massive Sulfide", or "Virgin Mothership" or ... "Virtual MachineS" :-) . Besides, what's the point in inventing new names and not confuse everybody?
 
Old 08-30-2018, 08:46 PM   #18
ninikos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bifferos View Post
Nested KVM is cool, you shouldn't need an excuse to try it! It's interesting to see how the performance of different things degrades when stuff is nested and it's much bigger than for the one-level deep virtualisation. I used it for trying out ESXi and Proxmox, although you often have to find settings both in the guest and the host to let nesting work properly. BTW: Someone really should remake this for KVM :-).
That was funny :-). But, linux in linux in linux? Maybe minix in BSD in linux?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bifferos
You should never be 'tempted' to write something in Python but decide on Bash. Python is superior to Bash in pretty much every way, and unlike 10 years ago I think enough people either know Python or at least are prepared to take a shot at learning enough to hack your script if needs be. Don't get me wrong, I love Bash for init scripts, or embedded stuff, but if you're already firing up a virtual machine you're not going to be worried about the memory overhead of Python, one of the few reasons for not using it. I also think start-up time is no longer an issue as it was a decade ago.
It's not the cpu and memory overhead. Even though I usually write much better python, since I have been using it much longer. For bigger, complex programs, yes, python is better. For even bigger ones, I prefer static typed compiled languages. It's more subtle things like this pythonic-way-to-check-if-a-file-exists. So many answers, so many imports ... don't get me wrong, but even the simplest way

Code:
import os
import other_stuff
import even_more_stuff

if os.path.isfile(my_file): 
    do_something()
for file in os.listdir(dir):
    do_something()
is less readable to me than

Code:
if [ -f "my_file ]; then
    do_something
fi
for file in $( ls dir ); do
    do_something
done
and the imports never end ... and maintaining python code is not that simple like when you start writing it, even in a virtual environment. I have so many broken virtual environments after pip upgrades. Anyway, I used to write python scripts for administrative and automation tasks. These days, I find that these kind of things are done in less lines and less time with bash rather than python. I actually have migrated some of the scripts I use at work from python to bash, less lines of code means less bugs, less problems for the users and less debugging for me.

But ... this thread is not about languages, so let's talk about vms :-) Have you tried it at all?
 
  


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