"Paper and Firecrackers" == "Actual 9/11 Truth"

There's a lot more to it than just that. If the guy knew the conditions under which he was stealing, than yes he's at fault

But (assuming your religion's teaching about hell is true for the argument - it isn't) nobody actually knows that they're going to end up in an eternal hell for not believing in a very specific version of a very specific religion.

The whole idea of hell is just fucked up. Even the worst of the worst of humanity would not deserve a literal eternity of the most brutal torture.

no matter how unreasonable the licence

So you agree that it's unreasonable?

But all that aside. You "proved" to yourself that hell does not exist so why should it trouble you any more than somebody that claims that breaking a mirror will give you bad luck?

Again, you're not reading my posts. Read the first three paragraphs of my post here: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ml#post5843413

What you're asking is similar to asking a veteran with PTSD "well you're not at war anymore, why are you having nightmares and panic attacks when you hear a firework go off or something like that?"

It troubles me that your extremist religion is teaching (brainwashing) people, and especially young children, that they're in danger of being tortured for all eternity, amongst other really damaging teachings like denying science, considering homosexuality a 'sin', and considering sexuality sinful and shameful, etc. It can, and it does, fuck people up mentally, and has caused huge amount of unnecessary suffering.

Doesn't all of this belong in the Faith & Religion Mega-Thread?

This thread was commissioned to talk about 9/11, not evolution. Please keep it on topic, or let it die.

I've brought back the F&R thread. Let's continue this discussion there.

Agreed sundial! Lets keep this thread related to all things 9/11.

Originally Posted by Mill J Please note I didn't say "any" science, I said "certain" science. Yes I agree this thread got out of hand and it's time to move on. I'll pass on that new thread. Maybe in a year or two I enjoy an argument, but I hate arguing about religion.

Since the Rules of Evidence are appropriate to this thread and also since you have declined to move this discussion there, please then, Sir, which "certain" Science relies on faith/non-evidence?

This site has interesting info...
http://www.scientistsfor911truth.org/index.html
https://www.europhysicsnews.org/arti...2016474p21.pdf

Originally Posted by Mill J Ever wonder why crime rates are rising?

They're not though?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
https://ourworldindata.org/homicides

Or would you consider any evidence of falling crime rates as government coverup?

Originally Posted by enorbet Since the Rules of Evidence are appropriate to this thread and also since you have declined to move this discussion there, please then, Sir, which "certain" Science relies on faith/non-evidence?

Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned that scientist have been analyzing the scientific data involved in this argument for two hundred years(possibly longer), that's 0.02% of one million years. The rest of the data in that time span has to be calculated based on the 0.02% collected. And thats just one million years. If you use the data of even 1 million years that's still 0.1% of a billion years. The environment also changes, what might take to Sun rays a year to bleach today, might have taken 5 days a certain period of time and maybe 100 years(maybe an ice age) at another time.

I intend to honor OP's request(it's his thread after all) and therefore will unsubscribe from this thread.

Originally Posted by Mill J I intend to honor OP's request(it's his thread after all) and therefore will unsubscribe from this thread.

I simply want the discussion to be moved.

We already have a venerable F&R Mega-Thread (which had begun to feel very lonely, by the way ...), so discussions can easily be transcribed over to there, where it might continue indefinitely as the thread itself has. Meanwhile, I think that this thread has run its "9/11" course already.

With respect for OP Sundial's right to admin any thread he cares to start and also the rules of LQN, I won't answer Mill J's latest post, which I do think deserves ongoing discussion but elsewhere and merely say that I find LQNs rules and application of those rules to be among the fairest and most free and open of any Forum I've ever been a member of and that unsubscribing is not their desire or purpose.

Just as Sundial responded, all LQN desires is to prevent threads from sprawling into meaninglessness, that they stay within the borders of On Topic. In a larger context that fits this thread and most threads, it is important that people agree on the definition of evidence to support claims for exactly the same reasons - coherent discussion of somewhat more value than water cooler bull sessions.

I just wanted to mention that tonight I watched a documentary on Amazon that just overwhelmed me emotionally and made me write this lest we get so caught up in the Science and Lore of buildings collapsing we forget the personal side of what is true horror, the people who died that day who for most have become some number seen only from a comfortable distance. Those numbers don't even include the vast number who survived them and must somehow go on.

I have witnessed people from around the world exhibit extreme compassion on one end of the scale and others who see the USA as some coherent and largely negative whole unsuitable for any compassion. I sincerely hope we can all overcome such prejudice and grasp what some, whoever they were and are, can accept such a profound Machiavellian acceptance of such true human horror as somehow serving some "greater good". I also hope that the Globalization evolving these days can reduce the sense of "borders" and elevate Humanity at least a little higher than it currently stands.

FWIW the movie I saw was entitled --- 9/11: The Falling Man --- and it asks and answers important questions about Truth and Propriety and how humans deal with real tragedy. If the Oficial Story is true then this should strengthen our resolve not only to punish those who can accept such choices that rationalize any complex political issue as "there are no Innocents" as Rational and Right but to learn something valuable about the Human Condition in all of us ...... or if the Truthers have any Truth in their claims then we must ask why didn't the perpetrators, whoever they were, set off the charges sooner and at least spared so many living people an hour that must've felt like an eternity in Hell. Both are inexcusable.