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Old 06-29-2019, 04:43 PM   #1
ChuangTzu
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Red Hat Expecting X.org to “Go into Hard Maintenance Mode Fairly Quickly”


"Red Hat's Christian Schaller says it's their belief that X.Org will soon be going into "maintenance mode" in favor of Wayland. Specifically he said:

Once we are done with [their Wayland improvements] we expect X.org to go into hard maintenance mode fairly quickly. The reality is that X.org is basically maintained by us and thus once we stop paying attention to it there is unlikely to be any major new releases coming out and there might even be some bitrot setting in over time. We will keep an eye on it as we will want to ensure X.org stays supportable until the end of the RHEL8 lifecycle at a minimum, but let this be a friendly notice for everyone who rely the work we do maintaining the Linux graphics stack, get onto Wayland, that is where the future is."

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...e-Mode-Quickly
https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2019/...orkstation-31/

"The reality is that X.org is basically maintained by us"...I guess the work of the BSD's and others means nothing to RedHat. Would love to see someone fork X and keep it alive.
 
Old 06-30-2019, 09:44 PM   #2
freemedia2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
I guess the work of the BSD's and others means nothing to RedHat.
Correct.

This is what everybody is doing these days-- gutting POSIX and replacing it with a lot of corporate garbage.

Quote:
Summary: Disruption of POSIX, EEE of free software projects, Infiltration of organisations that offer free software
http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php...Database#Redix

Quote:
Calling ".." a holdout from POSIX is misleading.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18554333

Last edited by freemedia2018; 06-30-2019 at 09:46 PM.
 
Old 06-30-2019, 10:24 PM   #3
dugan
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Ubuntu: we're going to try to deprecate 32-bit support (just one week ago).

Redhat: hold my beer.

Last edited by dugan; 07-01-2019 at 12:14 AM.
 
Old 06-30-2019, 10:25 PM   #4
frankbell
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I wonder, is "wayland" "waylaid" misplet?

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
 
Old 07-01-2019, 05:57 AM   #5
freemedia2018
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Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I wonder, is "wayland" "waylaid" misplet?
Systemx? Systemw?
 
Old 07-01-2019, 07:09 AM   #6
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
"The reality is that X.org is basically maintained by us"...I guess the work of the BSD's and others means nothing to RedHat. Would love to see someone fork X and keep it alive.
X.org has been very Linux centric and focused X development on things like 3D acceleration and the Linux graphics stack for many years. Operating systems like FreeBSD or OpenBSD, etc are very much downstream, porting over X11 and Linux drm/kms drivers once they've matured enough in Linux.

Wayland is being developed by X.org as the X11 replacement. Unless someone forks X11 it will disappear. However, X11 in itself has a lot of problems, so whether anyone will want to fork it and develop it on, rather than just maintaining it, is uncertain.

X.org is made up of and is directed by people from IBM/Red Hat, Canonical, Intel, HPE, AMD and others.

They host annual sponsored "developer conferences" with over 100 corporate reps/sponsors attending.

It’s a freedesktop.org project and that means Linux desktop centric. In effect it's developed by people who only consider a Linux system with systemd and a gnome desktop as viable. This is because as a business, they are only invested in what is relevant to their business.

If the development focus were still “legacy” X11 none of those people would be attending, none of that corporate money / developer time would be forthcoming...

Once free software development gets into the hands of big corporations, this kind of thing is inevitable.

Last edited by cynwulf; 07-01-2019 at 07:16 AM. Reason: typos galore..
 
Old 07-02-2019, 08:52 PM   #7
freemedia2018
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Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Once free software development gets into the hands of big corporations, this kind of thing is inevitable.
Which is why there really ought to be some kind of lifeboat for when it does.

I dunno, Gentoo? But friendlier? Perhaps just BSD then. Is that where this is going? Serious question, may not sound like one.
 
Old 07-02-2019, 10:16 PM   #8
dugan
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Xorg was the lifeboat. From XFree86.
 
Old 07-02-2019, 11:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Xorg was the lifeboat. From XFree86.
Fair enough, I meant in broader terms-- like an entire operating system that isn't infiltrated and co-opted by corporations.

In olden days it would be called GNU, but the FSF seems fairly apathetic about how much development is co-opted, so long as it is under the right license. It is certainly difficult to define exactly what they (or anybody) should do to prevent that, but if it is possible to define then an anti-monopoly version of GNU (yes, that ought to be a redundant term) should probably be available.

Because what seems to be happening is reduced compatibility with things that matter to users, and increased focus on what matters to these corporations.

There was a balance between these interests, but an increasing number of people seem to be talking about that balance toppling over or at least wobbling.
 
Old 07-04-2019, 03:15 AM   #10
cynwulf
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XFree86 adopted an unpopular licence with credit clauses and brought about their own end. Most of the developers moved to X.org as a I recall.

http://www.xfree86.org/legal/licenses.html
 
Old 07-19-2019, 03:51 PM   #11
jmgibson1981
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Because what seems to be happening is reduced compatibility with things that matter to users
Matter to users is subjective. I don't know how many people are actually using Linux, Xorg, or whatever but it is a safe bet to say that the people that will actually notice and or care about this change are very very few. Same with Systemd. If it was really such a big deal then it would have been derailed by every distro out there. Rather it is being adopted by all but a small handful. And as things progress and diverge, eventually people will walk away from other init systems. It will just be too much work to keep going. As the Red Hat guy said... Inevitable.

I'm not saying roll over and take it. I'm simply saying that it isn't as big a problem for the Linux community in general as you think it is. Most people just want it to work like their car. It runs, they drive. Simple. They don't care what type of steel is used in the camshaft. It is irrelevant to the majority as evidenced by the diminishing load of anti systemd posts as time progresses.

At the end of the day it is simply impossible for everyone to be happy. Some group or person will always be upset. You have to cater to the majority and the few on the outside are left to their own devices. Want to keep something out of date going on life support, nothing is stopping them. But it will never make a comeback and will fade eventually. Just delaying it is all.

Threads like this seem to me less about the corporations taking over and whatever but rather "sticking it to the man!" or some nonsense. Relax, have a beer and enjoy the ride. You may actually like the destination, even if you don't like the view in between.

Last edited by jmgibson1981; 07-19-2019 at 03:55 PM.
 
  


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