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Old 02-15-2019, 07:16 AM   #16
montagdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
As said above, this forum has become the unofficial Slackers home, so, polls here are bound to be skewed.

Just the fan boys pushing up the figures......
As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Never trust internet polls."
 
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:27 AM   #17
Lysander666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montagdude View Post
As Abraham Lincoln once said, "Never trust internet polls."
I thought he said, "never trust quotes you read on the internet - half of them are made up."

Or maybe it was Isembard Brunel.
 
Old 02-15-2019, 08:16 AM   #18
montagdude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
I thought he said, "never trust quotes you read on the internet - half of them are made up."

Or maybe it was Isembard Brunel.
He had a lot to say about the internet.
 
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:32 AM   #19
hitest
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I agree that Slackware is the best server distro(I'm a little biased).
In doing a rudimentary google search it seems that the most widely deployed version of Linux in businesses is Red Hat.
 
Old 02-21-2019, 08:11 AM   #20
Gerardo Zamudio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
In doing a rudimentary google search it seems that the most widely deployed version of Linux in businesses is Red Hat.
I love Slackware and use it on all my machines, including servers. If I had to set up a server for a third party, I too would (and do) go with Red Hat or CentOS. There are tons of tutorials online for doing whatever you want with CentOS. There is commercial support available, which is important for a business. Every major vendor out there has an .rpm you can install. The OS has many enterprise level features that are not present in Slackware. In a business, you have no time to be tinkering with the OS.
 
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:53 PM   #21
abga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerardo Zamudio View Post
The OS has many enterprise level features that are not present in Slackware.
Was that a conclusion sentence about you previous points related to RH/CentOS or did you actually mean that there are some extra "enterprise level" features?
 
Old 02-22-2019, 10:34 AM   #22
Gerardo Zamudio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
Was that a conclusion sentence about you previous points related to RH/CentOS or did you actually mean that there are some extra "enterprise level" features?
Conclusion. I'm saying CentOS is more enterprise ready than Slackware. We have had people on this forum switch their company from Slackware to CentOS because the latter fit their company's needs better.

For a lot of us, Slackware is missing too many components that are staples of an enterprise operating system. PAM, kerberos, and built in virtualization tools are a few of them.
 
Old 02-22-2019, 01:57 PM   #23
abga
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OK, thanks for the details. PAM & Kerberos might come with Slackware 15 (Patrick mentioned working on them some time ago) and about virtualization tools, well, these are not "built in" but available on SlackBuilds, some to start with:
http://www.slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/system/xen/
http://www.slackbuilds.org/repositor.../virt-manager/
http://www.slackbuilds.org/repositor...r-machine-kvm/
...
I just wanted to understand why you (the others you referenced) consider Slackware not suitable for virtualization, that's a topic that pops up every now and then, because you shouldn't. If it's about convenience, then I do agree that you might have some alternatives that you can use without investing too much intellectual effort, blindly following the documented success "recipes".

I do provide some tailored small business solutions myself and I'm still "old fashioned", creating clusters (2-4 hosts) and using load balancers, very cheap, didn't buy into the virtualization paradigm&marketing yet, not sure I'll ever do/need it (scaling), nor my customers (don't trust the public available cloud solutions). Slackware is doing just fine for my needs, actually it's excellent (flexible&stable). And then there's the continuously broken (ATM impossible to achieve) VM security/separation that puts me off every time I start considering virtualization.
 
Old 02-22-2019, 02:22 PM   #24
sevendogsbsd
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Just to throw this out there, at my last job, we hosted hundreds of physical and virtual Linux servers. All RHEL because we needed 24x7 support and they were easily managed centrally. They supported an application with close to 1 million users so we needed the sophisticated management tools Red Hat platform provides. On that scale, we could never have used Slackware. Not saying anything bad about Slack, but I don't think it was designed for an enterprise of that size.
 
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:44 PM   #25
Gerardo Zamudio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
I just wanted to understand why you (the others you referenced) consider Slackware not suitable for virtualization
The keyword for me was 'built in'. I do consider Slackware suitable for virtualization. As I said, all my servers and home network machines (desktops, laptops, single board ARM computers) use Slackware. I use qemu, libvirt, and virt-manager to manage all my local network virtual machines as well as virtual machines located in remote datacenters. See my screenshot for reference.

But getting this set up in Slackware requires time and tinkering. In CentOS 7, I can simply issue yum install qemu virt-manager or even yum groupinstall virtualization and in about a minute I can be creating my first virtual machine.

Slackware? If I'm using sbopkg and have taken the time (!) to track down all dependencies, set compile options, and put it all in an .sqf I can hopefully have it ready in about 2 hours. Here's a sample one I use when I just want to be done with it quickly:

Code:
python3
libbsd
netcat-openbsd
phodav
libseccomp
SDL2
pcsc-lite
libcacard
spice-protocol
six
pyparsing
lz4
opus
gst-libav
usbredir
virglrenderer
device-tree-compiler
libnfs
snappy
liburcu
glusterfs
spice
vala
spice-gtk
perl-Text-CSV
gtk-vnc
vde2
qemu | TARGETS=all
gnome-python2-gconf
osinfo-db-tools
osinfo-db
libosinfo
pcre2
vte3
tunctl
ipaddr-py
python-urllib3
python-certifi
python-chardet
idna
urlgrabber
yajl
libvirt
libvirt-glib
libvirt-python
python-requests
virt-manager
I have to count on the packages being available to download at whatever URL SlackBuilds.org has in the .info file. If I'm lucky, these packages will be the latest versions with all security vulnerabilities and bugs patched.

Check out my signature for a tutorial on setting up a mail server in Slackware 14.2. It's time consuming and you have to edit a ton of files. I have an older one that took even longer. For a Red Hat based distro this would take much less time. Additionally, there are a lot of turnkey mail servers solutions based on Red Hat.

Reading the post above mine I have to say I too would have never used Slackware in that situation. It's good for what it's good for and if you have the time, patience, and willingness, you can get it to do what you want. In a business setting this is rarely ever the case.
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:48 PM   #26
abga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerardo Zamudio View Post
But getting this set up in Slackware requires time and tinkering.
Yes, time for the first setup, some discipline and self-organizing skills to create and store the required packages for future use and not tinkering, but understanding what you're actually doing, gaining expert knowledge, a healthy and solid professional approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerardo Zamudio View Post
Slackware? If I'm using sbopkg and have taken the time (!) to track down all dependencies, set compile options, and put it all in an .sqf
Indeed, flexibility, understanding, learning, gaining expertise on the applications&solution provided, taking ownership, all respectable professional approaches. Not convenient, I must admit, but I don't know of any properly done work that is also convenient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerardo Zamudio View Post
Check out my signature for a tutorial on setting up a mail server in Slackware 14.2. It's time consuming and you have to edit a ton of files. I have an older one that took even longer. For a Red Hat based distro this would take much less time. Additionally, there are a lot of turnkey mail servers solutions based on Red Hat.
In that (impressive) detailed tutorial, you're covering a dozen applications (mail server dependencies and add-ons), not only the mail server itself (postfix) and you're also sharing your understanding&experience(expertise), presumably gained with the help of the transparent&flexible Slackware. Not sure what on RH would have taken less, packages&dependencies maybe - in case you didn't prepare (create packages) them during your first setup on Slackware, but not the solution design & tailoring (configuration files) work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerardo Zamudio View Post
Reading the post above mine I have to say I too would have never used Slackware in that situation. It's good for what it's good for and if you have the time, patience, and willingness, you can get it to do what you want. In a business setting this is rarely ever the case.
In business settings there are other organizational and legally binding requirements and not that much the expertise level, thus, you end up with the systems that suit better the first requirements.

I am genuinely trying to understand why Slackware is considered improper for some scenarios, because it's the closest you can get to pure Linux and I do regard the more "convenient" distros progressively distancing themselves from Linux and gradually turning into a sort of M$ Windows Server. The gained knowledge would be mainly useful on the distro itself and if it ceases to exist, you'll end up flushing the knowledge straight down the toilet. IMO, looking at RH, regarding it as a failed company, because a sold company is a failed one - failed in its original vision & mission, regardless who&why took the decision (owners/shareholders), I'd feel insecure about continuing with it and not focus on the core Linux toolset and commands.

I hope you didn't take my curiosity and dialogue wrong, I really appreciate your involvement in this discussion and hope you'll stay a devout Slacker and, most importantly, a true Linux professional.

Last edited by abga; 02-23-2019 at 05:51 PM. Reason: suit
 
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:22 PM   #27
LuckyCyborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
I am genuinely trying to understand why Slackware is considered improper for some scenarios, because it's the closest you can get to pure Linux and I do regard the more "convenient" distros progressively distancing themselves from Linux and gradually turning into a sort of M$ Windows Server.
According with Darth Vader from what I read, no sane Team Leader will choose between CentOS and one hour setup required by it, to use instead Slackware with at least 6 months of research only to understand its inner dependencies, then paying your own team of distribution grade developers to add PAM, Kerberos and so on.

Apparently, Slackware is so terrible inefficient to even be considered even as an alternative on business setups. It just require too much time, money and experience. For nothing to gain.

Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 02-23-2019 at 11:40 PM.
 
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Old 02-24-2019, 04:44 AM   #28
FlinchX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg View Post
According with Darth Vader from what I read, no sane Team Leader will choose between CentOS and one hour setup required by it, to use instead Slackware with at least 6 months of research only to understand its inner dependencies, then paying your own team of distribution grade developers to add PAM, Kerberos and so on.

Apparently, Slackware is so terrible inefficient to even be considered even as an alternative on business setups. It just require too much time, money and experience. For nothing to gain.
Similarly I could say that I had the "privilege" of interacting with Red Hat Certified Engineers originating from a certain country that doesn't even need its name stated explicitly, because this whole situation became a meme years ago and pretty much any average Slackware user from this forum is light years ahead of those in terms of Linux knowledge. But trying to use such particular cases as argument in distro wars by extrapolating them to whole ecosystems is a logical pitfall IMHO.

The argument that deployment of Red Hat takes less resources than Slackware is also just a part of the picture, because maintenance matters too and Slackware is easy to maintain by design. It might take longer to set things up, but once they work - they work.

I don't think it's wise to be quick and blame Slackware for everything it lacks, because that's just a part of the problem. Slackware has many things that don't make the life of a maintainer a hell and I'm glad it has the pride to embargo things that are too egocentric and don't play nice with others. The pragmatic approach is what makes it so appealing, because Pat and the crew are successful in delivering for so many years something that is an operating system first and targets users rather than a product that targets customers - be them individual home users or corporate behemoths.
 
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Old 02-24-2019, 10:28 AM   #29
Gerardo Zamudio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abga View Post
I hope you didn't take my curiosity and dialogue wrong, I really appreciate your involvement in this discussion and hope you'll stay a devout Slacker and, most importantly, a true Linux professional.
Thank you for the kind words! I absolutely did not take your comments in any negative fashion. It was clear you wanted an honest opinion, and that is mine.
 
  


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