LinuxQuestions.org
Share your knowledge at the LQ Wiki.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 12-08-2017, 03:28 AM   #31
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: Debian, Crux, LFS, AntiX, NuTyX
Posts: 1,478
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 627Reputation: 627Reputation: 627Reputation: 627Reputation: 627Reputation: 627

Quote:
Originally Posted by JockVSJock View Post
Everyone is moving to Bitcoin and these cryptos because they got screwed by the central banks in 2008. They are trying to get some value out their savings, like countries of Greece, Japan (which has a negative savings rate) and Venezuela. Where the economy has been destroyed, by design, by Central Banks. These people want to preserve what is left of their wealth.
So it's better to be screwed by market forces? Right now bitcoin is riding high, but I remember a few years ago it suddenly lost half its value overnight. People who want to preserve their wealth buy gold.
Quote:
The US Dollar only has value, because we give it value. It has no precious metal backing. Tomorrow we could be using US Dollars to light stoves to keep us warm because it will eventually have no purchasing power.
But precious metal has no real value either. I wish someone could explain to me why gold holds its purely notional value so firmly when it's actually no more useful than paper.
Quote:
As for Bitcoin, I like the idea behind it. I like Ethereum (blockchain and smart contracts) too.
I don't like the idea of any purely electronic currency whether it's bitcoin or smartcards. Electronic currency can't be physically removed from the bank if the bank is going bust. And with most electronic currencies, the government can track your purchases (though I gather that that they can't with bitcoin). Worse still, they can cut you off. Remember the Handmaid's Tale? With no physical money, women who tried to flee from the new slavery suddenly found that their credit cards didn't work any more.

Last edited by hazel; 12-08-2017 at 03:29 AM.
 
Old 12-08-2017, 08:34 AM   #32
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 8,674
Blog Entries: 4

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021
Banks can't "go bust." The government will simply "borrow from itself" as it always does, and pay you back. "Money" is actually a purely abstract concept, not linked to pretty pieces of paper – or, to gold.

There is not nearly enough gold in this world – that we can profitably get to, anyway – to "back" (sic) the number of currency-units that are in circulation at any time. Your ability to buy morning coffee does not depend on the activities of a miner, and the government isn't going to hand you 1/32 of an ounce of gold in exchange for the Apple Pay app on your iPhone.

To me, BitCoin is nothing more than a confidence game: an elaborate swindle with a novel form of scrip-unit. Because you might have spent a long time running a very expensive computing device – which you paid for, please note, in Dollars – to produce it, you suppose that it is "rare" and therefore "valuable." Likewise, if you paid money for it in "an ATM," and because its name includes the word, "Coin," you suppose that it is money. The scam can go on for quite a long time as long as the hands of the proper public officials are properly greased – with dollars – but eventually it will implode, as each and every swindle does. A Fool and his Money ...™

(No Fool ever thinks that it can happen to him.)
 
Old 12-08-2017, 10:27 AM   #33
rknichols
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2009
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 3,614

Rep: Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576
Bitcoin is quickly growing toward an energy usage limit.

Quote from https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-...keeps-growing/:
The total energy use of this web of hardware is huge—an estimated 31 terawatt-hours per year. More than 150 individual countries in the world consume less energy annually. And that power-hungry network is currently increasing its energy use every day by about 450 gigawatt-hours, roughly the same amount of electricity the entire country of Haiti uses in a year.
...
In just a few months from now, at bitcoin’s current growth rate, the electricity demanded by the cryptocurrency network will start to outstrip what’s available, ... By July 2019, the bitcoin network will require more electricity than the entire United States currently uses. By February 2020, it will use as much electricity as the entire world does today.

This is an unsustainable trajectory. It simply can’t continue.
 
Old 12-08-2017, 08:57 PM   #34
ntubski
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Distribution: Debian, Arch
Posts: 3,252

Rep: Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Electronic currency can't be physically removed from the bank if the bank is going bust.
People had trouble withdrawing physical cash during the Greek financial crisis as well, if I recall correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Banks can't "go bust." The government will simply "borrow from itself" as it always does, and pay you back.
Are you unaware of the fact that banks are not the government?
 
Old 12-08-2017, 09:20 PM   #35
rknichols
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2009
Distribution: CentOS
Posts: 3,614

Rep: Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576Reputation: 1576
And government-backed fiat currencies can effectively "go bust" also. Look at post WW-I Germany, or today's Venezuela. You'd still have your money, but you wouldn't be able to buy much with it. The German government was able to pay back all its wartime debts to the pfennig -- using currency that was virtually worthless.
 
Old 12-09-2017, 08:29 AM   #36
JockVSJock
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: SATX
Distribution: RHEL/CentOS
Posts: 1,229
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 135Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Banks can't "go bust." The government will simply "borrow from itself" as it always does, and pay you back. ]

LOL Again!

The Gov't doesn't create money, nor does it borrow from itself. All of this is done by a privately, owned Central Bank, which then loans it to the US Gov't, at interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
There is not nearly enough gold in this world – that we can profitably get to, anyway – to "back" (sic) the number of currency-units that are in circulation at any time. Your ability to buy morning coffee does not depend on the activities of a miner, and the government isn't going to hand you 1/32 of an ounce of gold in exchange for the Apple Pay app on your iPhone.
The bankers know this, so that is why the wanted the US off of the gold standard in 1971. That way the could fire up the printing press and flood the world with US Dollars. It benefits those in power, like the critters in Congress and US Foreign Aid. Other countries, like those running Mozambique, know this too.

Banks go "bust" when people lose confidence in them, like 2008 and like the Great Depression. Why do you think Grandpa stuffed his mattress with US Dollars Vs putting them into a Bank. The FDIC encourages recklessness because the banks know they will get bailed out by the US Gov't. However there may not be a next time.

Last edited by JockVSJock; 12-09-2017 at 08:31 AM.
 
Old 12-09-2017, 09:28 AM   #37
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 8,674
Blog Entries: 4

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021Reputation: 3021
[QUOTE=JockVSJock;5790909]
The Gov't doesn't create money, nor does it borrow from itself. All of this is done by a privately, owned Central Bank, which then loans it to the US Gov't, at interest.
[quote]

Tantamount to the exact same thing, of course. The "central bank" never refuses more "loans" from its only "customer." However ... the system works.

Quote:
Banks go "bust" when people lose confidence in them, like 2008 and like the Great Depression. Why do you think Grandpa stuffed his mattress with US Dollars Vs putting them into a Bank. The FDIC encourages recklessness because the banks know they will get bailed out by the US Gov't. However there may not be a next time.
The Glass-Steagall Act kept "banks," "finance," and "insurance" separate, thus creating a "three-legged stool" that can't fall over. The Dodd-Frank laws repealed this, creating a financially-unstable institution that knows it can simply stuff its losses into its "Banking" arm and receive a full government bail-out on those losses, while simultaneously booking great profits in its other octopus-arms ... which is precisely what these institutions did last time, and will continue to do until Dodd-Frank is repealed and Glass-Steagall is reinstated ... which could be a very long time from now. But the underlying financial system will never starve for liquidity: there won't be another "run on banks."

The biggest future impact that I see is America's tremendous imbalance in world trade: "the USA stopped producing." (And, insofar as possible, it stopped employing its own people.) The financial world is by-definition international, and countries such as China are less-and-less willing to send out ships loaded with goods and to receive ships loaded with ballast. "The USA" will more-and-more become "the only place in the world where a Dollar's worth One Dollar," and yet, due to the momentarily-mothballed capability that it still possesses(!), in the end that will be enough.

The momentum for "<<my_country First!" – still-nascent in the USA but also present in England's decision to withdraw from the EU – is actually a brilliant expression of an international-trade policy, once the ball finally gets rolling. (Trading partners will be pulling against each other in each negotiation, just as they should be. Negotiations will be uglier, but the treaties that come out of them will be much, much better.) Until then, the USA in-particular will continue to suffer ... at its own hands, just like the Prodigal Son.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 12-09-2017 at 09:30 AM.
 
Old Yesterday, 02:06 PM   #38
JockVSJock
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jan 2004
Location: SATX
Distribution: RHEL/CentOS
Posts: 1,229
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 135Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
However ... the system works.

For Central Banks only, remember the name of the game is bailout.

Quote:
"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!"

- Mayer Amschel Rothschild
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Remapping a Northgate Omnikey "Omni" button to serve as a "Windows" or "Super" key. CVAlkan Linux - Hardware 2 10-02-2015 12:13 PM
[SOLVED] X: "loading extension glx" "no screens found" "fatal server error" (w/ nvidia driver) Geremia Slackware 7 12-29-2014 12:00 PM
[SOLVED] "net rpc" "failed to connect to ipc$ share on" or "unable to find a suitable server" larieu Linux - General 0 11-09-2014 01:45 AM
Disturbing "No-Fly List" Articles sundialsvcs General 3 07-24-2014 09:32 PM
LXer: Displaying "MyComputer", "Trash", "Network Servers" Icons On A GNOME Desktop LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 04-02-2007 09:31 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration