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Old 09-04-2019, 04:03 AM   #136
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Here's an interesting development in sysvinit LFS. They have now added Gnome and are using elogind to avoid systemd-dependency. However a new problem has arisen with non-US keyboards when logging in with gdm. Bluntly, gdm does not recognise them (although the Gnome desktop does once it's up) so passwords are not being read correctly.

What they have decided to do is to fork localed and add it to the mix. The job of launching it goes to dbus.

If this kind of thing goes on, we could end up with a modular toolkit that will do the work of systemd alongside whatever kind of init you want.
OpenBSD 6.5-release ports seems to have the same version of gnome and gdm as Debian unstable (3.3x ?). There is of course no systemd - but also no forking of bits of systemd going on. I have no idea who uses gnome (or KDE for that matter) in OpenBSD, I'd imagine it would be a tiny minority of users as it hardly gets mentioned on the ports mailing lists.

I'm not sure of the specifics, but it's likely that the port maintainers, decided they didn't need any of this kind of functionality:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software...d.service.html

Personally I think all the "systemd emulation" and workarounds is just the proverbial slippery slope and very self defeating...

gnome project are very much invested in systemd and Red Hat, so it makes more sense to just ditch both systemd and gnome and find alternatives. But based on the above example and with the likes of FreeBSD, I wonder just how hard this "hard dependency" really is.
 
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Old 09-04-2019, 04:12 AM   #137
zeebra
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Well, if there is no systemd emulation (daemon??) in another init system, there will be issues with poorly written software which depend on (unnecessary) bits (software) swallowed up or created by systemd and included in their blob.

I think this issue will only become worse in the future as more software will choose the easy way and make unnecessary dependencies. It is a somewhat familiar issue in the GNU/Linux world already and I think has been explained in many different ways in the "dependency hell" thread.

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ke-4175637215/

Last edited by zeebra; 09-04-2019 at 04:15 AM.
 
Old 09-04-2019, 04:57 AM   #138
cynwulf
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You have two issues there:

1) The unnecessary dependencies
2) The nasty hacks and workarounds and forked bits of systemd to work around those

Both of those equally contribute to increased exposure / proliferation / market penetration for systemd.
 
Old 09-04-2019, 06:06 AM   #139
zeebra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
You have two issues there:

1) The unnecessary dependencies
2) The nasty hacks and workarounds and forked bits of systemd to work around those

Both of those equally contribute to increased exposure / proliferation / market penetration for systemd.
This is the "problem" that has to be solved, thus systemfree.
 
  


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