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Old 06-30-2020, 06:00 AM   #1
hazel
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Facebook and the advertisers


We all know the Facebook business model: encourage the formation of bubbles and echo chambers within which people will be shown only what they already want to believe, because that means they will view the pages for longer and click more often on the ads. More clicks on ads mean more money paid by the advertisers to FB.

For the companies advertising, it's a bit of a mixed deal. More clicks on ads mean more sales, but if the clicks come from pages containing racist or terrorist material, there could be reputational damage done. So recently a few big companies such as Reebock and Microsoft have been withdrawing their custom. Some people have been hoping that this might lead to a cleanup of social media.

But not according to one of the BBC's economic correspondents on the news this morning. It is not such a problem for FB as you might think because most of their advertising income actually comes, not from giants like Microsoft, but from a huge number of small companies who don't have any reputation to lose.
 
Old 06-30-2020, 12:57 PM   #2
rnturn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
We all know the Facebook business model: encourage the formation of bubbles and echo chambers within which people will be shown only what they already want to believe, because that means they will view the pages for longer and click more often on the ads. More clicks on ads mean more money paid by the advertisers to FB.
Heh...

There are ads on Facebook? I've been using the ``F.B. Purity'' browser plug-in and blocking ads for so long, I'd forgotten that people advertise on that platform.
 
Old 06-30-2020, 08:23 PM   #3
frankbell
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A web search for "facebook advertisers revolt" will turn up a number of interesting reports.

I have an account at the Zuckerborg, but I log in only when I must (I do outreach for an organization and one must reach out where the people are). It appalls and saddens me that persons will believe stuff they see on Facebook (or on a computer screen in general) when they wouldn't believe the same stuff if it before their eyes.
 
Old 07-01-2020, 03:31 AM   #4
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I have an account at the Zuckerborg
I closed mine recently.
It was a surprisingly involved process and I could not do it over TOR ("Before we let you go, we will get this last bit of personal data from you! Resistance is futile!").
Also, if I log in during the first 30 days after account closure, the whole process becomes null and void. That's just harrasment, and kinda weird.
 
Old 07-01-2020, 08:05 PM   #5
frankbell
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Quote:
I closed mine recently.
And, if I remember correctly, you can close your account, but they keep all your history.

This story came into my RSS feed today from the NPR/PBS station in Philadelphia (where I used to life):
https://whyy.org/npr_story_post/over...on-juggernaut/

An excerpt:

Quote:
When the Stop Hate for Profit campaign launched just two weeks ago, its organizers had not yet persuaded a single advertiser to boycott Facebook in July.

Now, more than 400 companies, from Coca-Cola and Adidas to Ford and Lego, have vowed to halt advertising on the social network, in a growing protest over how it handles hate speech and other harmful content.
 
Old 07-01-2020, 08:18 PM   #6
KGIII
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I'm retired and my family is full of people smart enough to use alternative forms of communication.

This means I don't have a Facebook account - and I actually consider this kinda a luxury. I don't need one. I can't be coerced into using one. My family use a VPS that I have set up with file-sharing, a forum, and even private email accounts. They're even willing to use it.

I'm not kidding about considering it a luxury. So many people are coerced into, even required to, use Facebook. They say that not having a profile even makes it difficult to get certain jobs. Sometimes, I see the future as being rather dystopian and Orwellian. We had such a childlike optimism when the 'net was new.
 
Old 07-01-2020, 08:42 PM   #7
frankbell
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Quote:
We had such a childlike optimism when the 'net was new.
So true.

No one anticipated the rise of surveillance capitalism.

As I said, I use Facebook maybe once a month for one-way (me to others about monthly events) communication.

Outside of that, I'm with you. Anyone who wants two-way communication can call me or email me or even text me or even Skype me.
 
Old 07-01-2020, 08:55 PM   #8
KGIII
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
Anyone who wants two-way communication can call me or email me or even text me or even Skype me.
Yup. I've got all sorts of ways that folks can contact me. It's probably due to some selection bias, but anyone I associate with knows how to reach me without relying on social media.

Also, way back when, there were some few naysayers who warned of things like data collection. Collectively, we chose to (mostly) ignore them. Many of the earlier plaints came from within what we'd now call the open source community, as memory serves. In like 1986 there was a documentary about the risks of 'databases' and they were predicting that people would be able to look up anything about you and decrying things like credit card and credit history being put into databases. I actually re-bumped into the doc a few years ago on YouTube. It was good for some mirthful laughs and reflection.

As I recall, the main subject went on to be an editor of one of the major industry rags that popped up in the 90s. I recognized the name at the time, but I've completely forgotten the name of the documentary. I want to say it was a PBS documentary.

Ah well... There's not a damned thing we can do to alter the course. I'm not being cynical, I'm being pragmatic!
 
Old 07-02-2020, 03:06 AM   #9
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
This is good news indeed, I didn't know there was so many companies already.
I hope they keep it up, this sends a clear and widespread message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
And, if I remember correctly, you can close your account, but they keep all your history.
Not the profile itself and uploaded media; but we knew that.
What's your point here?

If anyone else is interested:
https://www.facebook.com/help/224562897555674/
 
Old 07-02-2020, 07:41 PM   #10
frankbell
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Quote:
What's your point here?
Bad memory?

Thanks for straightening me out.
 
Old 07-03-2020, 02:55 AM   #11
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
Bad memory?

Thanks for straightening me out.
That's not an anwer to my question?
I had the feeling you wanted to point out the futility of closing an FB account, and if you did I would strongly disagree on that.
But nevermind.

Just to clarify:
They do keep some of my data.
The page I linked earlier states:
Quote:
Your profile, photos, posts, videos, and everything else you've added will be permanently deleted.
See how they don't simply say "everything"? Because they keep some data. I think "history" is probably correct.
Nevertheless, I think it's a Good Thing. We certainly wouldn't have gotten FB to offer this solution without pushback.
Which neatly brings us back on topic!
 
Old 07-03-2020, 07:28 PM   #12
frankbell
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Quote:
I had the feeling you wanted to point out the futility of closing an FB account, and if you did I would strongly disagree on that.
I had no such thought.

I was more concerned with Facebook's own user surveillance and lack of trustworthiness.
 
Old 07-04-2020, 03:53 AM   #13
hazel
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In any case you can't get rid of your "shadow profile". This is the secret profile that FB builds up on you from information gleaned from your contacts. You have one even if you've never had a Facebook account yourself. You can't edit it and you can't delete it.
 
Old Yesterday, 04:41 AM   #14
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
This is good news indeed, I didn't know there was so many companies already.
I hope they keep it up, this sends a clear and widespread message.
Maybe I was wrong.

Yesterday I heard on the news that apparently FB is starting to take down mostly right-wing hatemongering articles.

When I first heard about this campaign I thought it was against the algorithm itself, because it is the algorithm itself that prefers hate speech (regardless of political leaning), because "Angry People Click More".

If FB's reaction is to take down offending articles instead of changing the algorithm I'd say mission not accomplished.
 
Old Yesterday, 05:30 AM   #15
cynwulf
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Those companies will likely achieve better pricing from this, which is probably one of the main objectives there anyway - any other reasoning is most likely political. For me, while I'm certainly no fan of "social media", it's a contentious issue as to whether any kind of censorship or regulation will be as effective as it's proponents believe.
 
  


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