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Old 06-26-2020, 06:32 PM   #46
Aeterna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitest View Post
Up until recently I was a long-time FreeBSD user, I started with FreeBSD 5.x.
heh.. that was the last FreeBSD version that I used for a long time (starting with 1.x or 2.x don't remember really). I was using NetBSD quite intensively around verion 1.4. OpenBSD was/is best as router/firewall so I tried it few times but not intensively. OBSD is just slow to use as desktop.
In VM, I currently have OpenBSD-6.7, FreeBSD-11.4 and FreeBSD-12.1.
OpenBSD does not have support for Virtualbox so either you will end up with 800x600 or do some editing to get full screen resolution whatever it is. No support for mouse integration, clipboard sharing. File sharing can be fixed by configuring either samba or nfs. youtube just does not work. This is the only OS in VM that can't cope with youtube.
FreeBSD's have support for virtualbox but it is not perfect.

I have laptop with i4810MQ/32GB of RAM and 2TB SSD and all virtual guests get ~14GB RAM and 4CPUs. So my problems may be related to the hardware (e.g. no mouse but touchpad). The advantage of using VM is that the hardware is quite conservative and really safe.

Filesharing over vboxvfs works with some issues (file syncing may be slow).
clipboard sharing works with some exceptions: in some cases formated text copied from host or another VM client will not paste. I don't know why, but when pasting to libreoffice writer, clipboard generates error:
Quote:
Requested clipboard format is not available.
there may be a solution to this but I did not search extensively.
Another problem with mouse integration is EUDEV that was added in FreeBSD-12.1
it has some weird effect on the mouse. In my case all worked except firefox where using mouse scroll up caused firefox to jump to the previous page. This made firefox quite difficult to use in FreeBSD.
there are two solutions:
1. Install FreeBSD-11.x (no EUDEV)
2. Install FreeBSD-12.0 (and do not update)
3. Install FreeBSD-12.x (and re-compile kernel without EUDEV and this will revert X to behave as in FreeBSD-11.x)

I have FreeBSD-11.4 and FreeBSD-12.1-RELEASE-p10 with custom kernel without EUDEV and both versions have perfect mouse support.
Out of curiosity I installed FreeBSD-13-CURRENT but it has the same problems (caused by EUDEV) with the mouse so I had to re-compile the kernel.

When installing custom kernel one have to remember about consequences when upgrading system. To avoid problems, new kernel has to have custom name and has to be excluded for the system update. When I updated system, I had to re-compile kernel again to finish system update/upgrade. No issues though.

OpenBSD does not have these issues because it does not support Virtualbox..
I did install custom kernel in OpenBSD (kernel config is really convoluted), and the updated from iso (e.g. 6.6 to 6.7). Went without a hitch.

Personally I think that in VM FreeBSD provides superior desktop experience to OpenBSD. It is faster (no issues with youtube) and has more software.

I would suggest to use Openbox in BSDs. I think that Plasma on FreeBSD needs to mature a bit and properly configured Openbox is better that Mate or Xfce4 (BSD).

I would suggest to do heavy editing of rc.conf, loader.conf and sysctl.conf for best experience. One can also play with pf. Custom kernel adds perks and it is safe in the case of FreeBSD because system keeps automatically last good kernel so if I screw up and custom kernel will not boot, I can always choose generic to start.

So now I have two FreeBSDs and one OpenBSD clients in VM. I am going to keep them for the foreseeable future.

Last edited by Aeterna; 06-26-2020 at 06:36 PM.
 
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Old 06-26-2020, 07:53 PM   #47
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
That rather self indulgent opinion piece has been linked time and again.
Apparently with good reason.

There was a lot of information there which I did not know. The two main eye-opening points for me were:

1. The General Resolution questions were political rather than technical.
2. When you take the politics out of it, systemd lost the vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
GR or not, the devs maintaing the default desktop- gnome (itself mainly ibm / red hat funded) - were always going to adopt systemd
This is very strange for a distribution which prides itself on democracy and the promotion of "free" software to the point that it doesn't allow you to install FireFox (IceWeasel! Really??) unless you choose to allow it to use "non-free" repositories. Clearly, that's just window dressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
Now in fact many not only just shrug complacently, but actually believe that MS' intentions are good.
I'm no great fan of this guy, but maybe he was right: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014...ed-by-the-nsa/

Last edited by rkelsen; 06-26-2020 at 07:56 PM.
 
Old 06-26-2020, 08:00 PM   #48
rhimbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
Apparently with good reason.

I'm no great fan of this guy, but maybe he was right: https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014...ed-by-the-nsa/
Ooh, I guess I have my reading assignment for this evening....

Thanks for this. I knew nothing about this.... Sigh, so much to learn, so little time....
 
Old 06-29-2020, 06:20 AM   #49
LU344928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
Elsewhere on that blog:

'Iíve liked what I read about some of OpenBSDís approaches to security ... Compared to FreeBSD, which seems to be more open to systemd (you can see FreeBSD lead developers acclimating their users to systemd already, and trying to turn it too into a mobile thing), OpenBSD seems to be rejecting it thus far.'

https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2015...p-replacement/

Interesting.
 
Old 06-29-2020, 07:44 AM   #50
sevendogsbsd
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FreeBSD and systemd? Why? Never heard that or even a rumor of it. Systemd brings zilch to the server community which is what FreeBSD is mostly about. Yes, you can make it a desktop but that is not their main focus.

Just noticed that blog is 6 years old.
 
Old 06-29-2020, 07:48 AM   #51
Turbocapitalist
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Benno Rice and quite a few others were talking it up a few years ago. I haven't followed FreeBSD to know if it has come to real damage yet or if it was just talk or even just trolling the GNU/Linux distros.
 
Old 06-29-2020, 08:41 AM   #52
sevendogsbsd
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I frequent the forums quite a bit and I have never once seen anything about systemd and FreeBSD. I think it is a case of apples and fish - systemd is strictly Linux and there is no use case for it in FreeBSD. A lot of disdain for it over there as well.
 
Old 06-29-2020, 08:47 AM   #53
Turbocapitalist
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systemd itself cannot be ported, it is Linux-only. However, Benno and others have been big fans of what systemd is doing to Linux and asking publicly what ideas they can copy to FreeBSD from systemd. However, I have not followed it and it was at least a few years ago I last payed any attention to that discussion.
 
Old 06-29-2020, 10:25 AM   #54
sevendogsbsd
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That's what I figured. FreeBSD is dead simple but could use some improvements in terms of desktop use. I don't think that's high on the foundation's radar though. Like everyone else, they have a limited budget.
 
Old 06-29-2020, 10:29 AM   #55
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They weren't talking about improvements, they were talking about systemd and pieces of it. :/

As far as desktop goes, OpenBSD has generic FreeBSD beaten in the desktop and notebook area. Though FreeBSD has gotten better. You used to be able to spot the FreeBSD fans at conferences because they were the ones toting Windows notebooks, later OS X, and a laundry list of excuses. There are some good desktop-oriented FreeBSD distros mentioned earlier in this discussion.
 
Old 06-29-2020, 10:49 AM   #56
sevendogsbsd
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So, I'll agree with you on laptops but on the desktop for me anyway, FreeBSD had it hands down. Laptops for me have always been a giant pain, which is why I only run MacBook Pros. I never liked any of the FreeBSD desktop editions and always did the "pure" FreeBSD hand config solution. Worked well for me for some time. Now I don't do any desktops except MacOS and use FreeBSD and Slackware in VMs only. My hack box VM is Slackware and works extremely well; far better and far less pain than Kali because I only need a few tools. I am getting off topic though...

In reality, it's not a competition so whatever works for everyone, or rather whatever anyone chooses is good for them.
 
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Old 06-29-2020, 11:51 AM   #57
hitest
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevendogsbsd View Post
In reality, it's not a competition so whatever works for everyone, or rather whatever anyone chooses is good for them.
Exactly! Live and let live.
At the moment I'm running a variety of operating systems: Slackware64-current, OpenBSD, Debian, and Windows 10 Pro. I don't have a political or philosophical distaste for different operating systems. I prefer a pragmatic approach to the operating systems that I run; I use whatever meets my needs.
 
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Old 06-30-2020, 07:21 PM   #58
KGIII
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Seeing as this thread is still sorta active, I want to throw in a thumbs-up for GhostBSD. It's one of my favorite VMs to play with. Strangely, I've never bothered installing it on bare metal. If I end up leaving Lubuntu, I may well go to GhostBSD.
 
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