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Old 11-21-2017, 02:12 AM   #6391
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
Other than a complete OS, there are virtual app creators. They convert just one app into a lightweight VM. These are some examples: http://carlcheo.com/portable-app-creators. It is not THE example I was looking for, but for the life of it I cannot remember the name. More research might be useful.
if this is what i think it is, i definitely have to check it out.
will any of these apps work on linux?
 
Old 11-21-2017, 05:32 AM   #6392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
Virtualbox can share a drive from your host OS with Windows. It shows up as a mapped drive.

Other than a complete OS, there are virtual app creators. They convert just one app into a lightweight VM. These are some examples: http://carlcheo.com/portable-app-creators. It is not THE example I was looking for, but for the life of it I cannot remember the name. More research might be useful.

jlinkels
That's what I meant about how files are shared between the two -- I might be wrong but I can't see Windows playing nicely with a workflow necessitating the use of a separate drive for certain parts of the workflow.
As to the containerisation type thing -- how on earth do M$ structure the license to cope with that eventuality? Would each instance be another license to pay, would one have to call M$ every time an application was installed to confirm one owned a key?

OK, I'm being a bit awkward but my point it VMs ave their own issues to work out.
 
Old 11-21-2017, 07:40 AM   #6393
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Like I write in my post to lax luthier, you should consider Windows in a VM exactly as another laptop standing next to you.

That doesn't solve any problem you mention (shared drives, licensing), but a VM doesn't make them worse either.

Personally, I do not use any Windows app which requires a serious workflow. Just things like VMWare client and some programs to interface with hardware devices. Although with the latter the file sharing demon (not daemon!) pops up when I need the images or data files.

For real work like the creation of things, documents, programs, artwork, technical design I don't need and don't want Windows applications. Unfortunately this doesn't fly when you have to share with co-workers.

What I cannot understand is why Windows users in general refuse (or are reluctant at least) to use FOSS like Inkscape or Gimp and prefer licensed software. I can understand they do not want to use LibreOffice, but there are also multiplatform alternatives.

While reading through the latest posts of this thread the thought crossed my mind that we should open another thread: which Linux programs you like to see ported to Windows. Which is nonsense of course because most programs are available in Windows. But it shows the discrepancy. Linux programs are very usable, but seldom preferred in Windows.

jlinkels
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:51 AM   #6394
Bruce from Canada
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Libre Office work around for Photo Page Plus.

Having taken a brief look at the sort of thing Photo Page plus does, it seems as though I could do as much or more using Libre Office draw.

However if you want to doi photo post-processing before making a coll;age page, you will need to do that in GIMP.

Both Libre office and Gimp are open source and cross platform (meaning you can have them coexist on a Windows system, or you can have them in many Linux distros, minus the cost of having a windows license, and all legally.

However you will have to do some added learning. the capabilirties of both these applications is very extensive, and though you can get started fairly easily, the worthwhileness of all is in biting th bullet on the self-learning commitment, much as I have done for some 50 years or more in multiple subjects and 3 languages.

Versatility and complexity always go hand in hand - how much do you want and are you ready, willing and able to do the self-learning <<au fur et a mesure >> (or, in ongoing and dynamic proportion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
Like I write in my post to lax luthier, you should consider Windows in a VM exactly as another laptop standing next to you.

That doesn't solve any problem you mention (shared drives, licensing), but a VM doesn't make them worse either.

Personally, I do not use any Windows app which requires a serious workflow. Just things like VMWare client and some programs to interface with hardware devices. Although with the latter the file sharing demon (not daemon!) pops up when I need the images or data files.

For real work like the creation of things, documents, programs, artwork, technical design I don't need and don't want Windows applications. Unfortunately this doesn't fly when you have to share with co-workers.

What I cannot understand is why Windows users in general refuse (or are reluctant at least) to use FOSS like Inkscape or Gimp and prefer licensed software. I can understand they do not want to use LibreOffice, but there are also multiplatform alternatives.

While reading through the latest posts of this thread the thought crossed my mind that we should open another thread: which Linux programs you like to see ported to Windows. Which is nonsense of course because most programs are available in Windows. But it shows the discrepancy. Linux programs are very usable, but seldom preferred in Windows.

jlinkels
 
Old 11-21-2017, 08:58 AM   #6395
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VMWare had a wonderful way of running a Windows Virtual Machine in a 'headless' mode, which basically meant that you could launch any installed program (from the virtual machine) from a menu, and it would launch that program, but not the whole desktop. Sadly, they have retired that feature. It would be great if either VirtualBox or VMWare had something like it. Unfortunately, it was built for Unity, though I had it working in other DMs.

Neither of them (VMWare or Virtualbox) are any good if you want any heavy graphics programs running (games etc.), as the graphics drivers are not really very good for 3D, and MANY programs that use DirectX or OpenGL fail to load.
 
Old 11-21-2017, 09:06 AM   #6396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpaton View Post
VMWare had a wonderful way of running a Windows Virtual Machine in a 'headless' mode, which basically meant that you could launch any installed program (from the virtual machine) from a menu, and it would launch that program, but not the whole desktop. Sadly, they have retired that feature. It would be great if either VirtualBox or VMWare had something like it. Unfortunately, it was built for Unity, though I had it working in other DMs.

Neither of them (VMWare or Virtualbox) are any good if you want any heavy graphics programs running (games etc.), as the graphics drivers are not really very good for 3D, and MANY programs that use DirectX or OpenGL fail to load.
VirtualBox the used to have a "seemless mode" like that but I'm not sure whether it's still there or not.
 
Old 11-21-2017, 09:21 AM   #6397
alexpaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce from Canada View Post
Having taken a brief look at the sort of thing Photo Page plus does, it seems as though I could do as much or more using Libre Office draw.

However if you want to doi photo post-processing before making a coll;age page, you will need to do that in GIMP.

Both Libre office and Gimp are open source and cross platform (meaning you can have them coexist on a Windows system, or you can have them in many Linux distros, minus the cost of having a windows license, and all legally.

However you will have to do some added learning. the capabilirties of both these applications is very extensive, and though you can get started fairly easily, the worthwhileness of all is in biting th bullet on the self-learning commitment, much as I have done for some 50 years or more in multiple subjects and 3 languages.

Versatility and complexity always go hand in hand - how much do you want and are you ready, willing and able to do the self-learning <<au fur et a mesure >> (or, in ongoing and dynamic proportion).
Your post is a bit mixed up there:-
PagePlus is a Desktop Publisher with very advanced processing. Scribus and LibreOffice Draw/Writer don't come close. It was at the budget end of the market, but blew Microsoft Publisher away. It was also a very good PDF editor (which Libreoffice only really does in Draw, badly).
It has since been replaced by Affinity Designer.

PhotoPlus is a photo editor, and can almost certainly be replaced 99% with The Gimp, and the other 1% are probably features that few people use. In fact, most people could probably do what they need in Pinta, with almost no learning curve.

DrawPlus is a Vector drawing program. It is like a usable version of CorelDraw/Illustrator. The closest thing I have come across in Linux is XaraLX, which unfortunately is no longer working in Ubuntu. XaraLX was also the closest thing to PagePlus, in functionality, though it didn't really get close. Krita would be a very decent replacement, though in my experience, it is one of the least stable (and therefore, most frustrating) linux programs to use.
This has also been replaced by Affinity Designer.
 
Old 11-22-2017, 07:09 AM   #6398
Bruce from Canada
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more on Linux apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpaton View Post
Your post is a bit mixed up there:-
PagePlus is a Desktop Publisher with very advanced processing. Scribus and LibreOffice Draw/Writer don't come close. It was at the budget end of the market, but blew Microsoft Publisher away. It was also a very good PDF editor (which Libreoffice only really does in Draw, badly).
It has since been replaced by Affinity Designer.

PhotoPlus is a photo editor, and can almost certainly be replaced 99% with The Gimp, and the other 1% are probably features that few people use. In fact, most people could probably do what they need in Pinta, with almost no learning curve.

DrawPlus is a Vector drawing program. It is like a usable version of CorelDraw/Illustrator. The closest thing I have come across in Linux is XaraLX, which unfortunately is no longer working in Ubuntu. XaraLX was also the closest thing to PagePlus, in functionality, though it didn't really get close. Krita would be a very decent replacement, though in my experience, it is one of the least stable (and therefore, most frustrating) linux programs to use.
This has also been replaced by Affinity Designer.
Peoples' evaluations of software and more often is coloured or biased by what is superficially convenient to them. However my approach is more to get into the underpinnings abnd make a limited number of open source apps do far more than they end up doing for most, however I do not write code or compile code. I am an advanced user, but not a software developer.

Nonetheless, I create various template like applications in Libre office, Gimp, Audacity and the like, and also have started to tinker with Pitivi.

The same bias is true for what I do, but by going deeper into the apps I do use, I open the door for getting even more versatility out of them, with less learning cosmetics.
 
Old 11-22-2017, 07:23 AM   #6399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlinkels View Post
Yes


It is turned off. The next time you start it, it is there as before.


You turn it off and start it up as a normal computer.


Yes


That is on the low side. 8 GB would be better.

Think of a virtual machine as another laptop standing next to your normal computer. You can install, uninstall, put it to sleep, wake it up, turn it off and on, format your hard disk, configure your screen. The only difference is, it is not a real hardware laptop, but something which emulates your laptop's hardware. And shares the same processor resources.

There is no mixup between the processes, memory, disks between your host machine and your guest machine. Totally separate. The farthest you can go in sharing is to make a shared drive in one of your machines and access it like you access a drive over the network.

jlinkels
What excellent, exacting answers! Thanks so much. I did try researching the process of setting up said virtual windows machine. It seemed complex and in my hands potentially disastrous. I'm not much of a software geek, rather an experienced hardware maven. But when I can upgrade to 8 Gbyte I will "vow to endeavor to persevere".

Thanks again, Lax L.
 
Old 11-22-2017, 07:30 AM   #6400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
VirtualBox the used to have a "seemless mode" like that but I'm not sure whether it's still there or not.
It is indeed
 
Old 11-22-2017, 11:15 AM   #6401
alexpaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
VirtualBox the used to have a "seemless mode" like that but I'm not sure whether it's still there or not.

Seamless mode was never quite as complete as Unity mode. In Unity mode, you could add a menu to several linux DMs, to launch individual programs from the virtual machine.
 
Old 11-22-2017, 11:25 AM   #6402
273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexpaton View Post
Seamless mode was never quite as complete as Unity mode. In Unity mode, you could add a menu to several linux DMs, to launch individual programs from the virtual machine.
I'd not realised that couldn't be done with seamless mode, if I'm honest. Not something I've found the need for beyond playing around a little. I can see how it could be useful but it would confuse me trying to recall which VM was running which application and where it stored the outputs.
 
Old 11-22-2017, 11:31 AM   #6403
alexpaton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce from Canada View Post
Peoples' evaluations of software and more often is coloured or biased by what is superficially convenient to them. However my approach is more to get into the underpinnings abnd make a limited number of open source apps do far more than they end up doing for most, however I do not write code or compile code. I am an advanced user, but not a software developer.

Nonetheless, I create various template like applications in Libre office, Gimp, Audacity and the like, and also have started to tinker with Pitivi.

The same bias is true for what I do, but by going deeper into the apps I do use, I open the door for getting even more versatility out of them, with less learning cosmetics.
That is true, for much of my Linux usage. Video editing in particular, I find I use several different programs to arrive at an end result. Aside from editing any text in a text editor, and preparing images, it is difficult to do the same kind of processes in desktop publishing, particularly for things like brochures.

I tend to work on the principal, that if it is a job that I only do occasionally, I need a GUI, rather than having to re-learn how to do things every time.

When talking about the Serif products (particularly PagePlus and DrawPlus), I have spoken to them about it on several occasions, since they say that their developers have versions of their software running on WINE. I have stated to them that I would happily pay for a Linux version. They have now replaced it with Affinity Designer, which I would happily pay for as well; Bizarrely, they have made the effort to produce a MAC version now, which presumably means that they have changed their processes somewhat, but they have still not made a Linux version.

I even wrote them a VERY long email about Agile program development, with resource links and an article link about how it could benefit them, as they could develop 95% of their code for all platforms, and then develop the 5% for individual platforms. Unfortunately, their public email address did not exist and the email bounced.

I would have thought that the budget software arena (i.e. 49 dollars, euros or pounds) is an area that Linux users would pay, for VERY good productivity software.
 
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