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Old 04-04-2020, 07:46 AM   #301
teckk
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In the news.

https://www.rollcall.com/2020/04/02/...ck-inspectors/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fa...ne/ar-BB128ktv
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/03/us/nf...trnd/index.htm
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...8jQI?li=BBnb7K
https://www.wsj.com/articles/walmart...th-11585940600
https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/...encies-history
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-year...-ice-1.1416838
 
Old 04-04-2020, 03:41 PM   #302
jmgibson1981
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First I'll say I would wish this on no one. It's horrible to see people dying. It's terrible to be sick. Just generally something no one wants or deserves.

That being said. I'm finding an interesting side effect of this pandemic. With very few exceptions people in my area seem to be much kinder and forgiving to each other in grocery stores or wherever people still are at. It's just not like it was a few months ago. Odd dynamic I guess compared to the normal reality we generally face / used to face. When this first broke I saw people taking stuff out of other's carts, arguing, fighting, just degradation of decency by all. Now it's quite peaceful around. Quieter with so few cars. Aside from being in fear for my family getting sick I'd daresay I have actually lost a fair amount of stress from normal life. I suppose everything has some positive side if you look hard enough. It's very eye opening when you think about it. Combine that with pollution levels across the planet, I'm curious how life in general will change and stay changed because even with a vaccine or cure tomorrow it will take many years to return to what we used to think of as normal. If it ever does.

Again I say I am in no way thankful for this happening to the world. But it does have more than just a negative effect.

Last edited by jmgibson1981; 04-04-2020 at 03:46 PM.
 
Old 04-04-2020, 04:29 PM   #303
teckk
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In the US right after Sept 11 2001, people were kinder and more humble to each other. Everyone noticed it. Very little honking at each other in traffic, more patience standing in lines, even letting people at the stop sign intersections go first.

That lasted for 3 or 4 months. Then right back to business as usual.

When this plague dies down, I bet that it will be right back to standard in a month or so. In the US anyway.

I don't think that this will be a life changing event for people. I've watched this for too many years now.

It may alter how people shop. They may find that they like ordering online and then picking up at Walmart better than going to the store. They are even doing that with groceries.

This may kill off a bunch of Mom and Pop stores. Depends on how long that it lasts.

I've read all of the stories of how Americans will be better acting people after this. I doubt it.
 
Old 04-04-2020, 05:29 PM   #304
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Only time will tell. WWI and WWII changed an entire generation (psychologically and emotionally), and things did not "change" again until the next generation. I remember root closets in the basement, well stocked pantries with "extra" food, people canning and preserving, having the foresight to save during fat years so you are prepared for lean years etc... Perhaps that will return, perhaps we will fly less, perhaps more people will enjoy working from home, less hand shaking-hugging-PDA, perhaps people will wash their hands and stay home when sick, perhaps instead of rewarding employees for not using sick time employers will fine them for going to work sick... again only time will tell.
 
Old 04-05-2020, 12:28 AM   #305
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I am much more concerned about the overreaction to the virus than the actual virus itself.

Within the last few days all of the following have been reported from reputable news sources:

The president of the Philippines threatened to have people shot on sight by the police if they are out after quarantine "causing trouble". The spokesperson for his office claims it was just hyperbole.

LA county has stopped immediate medical transport of cardiac and drug overdose cases to the ER. They monitor you on sight for 5 minutes now. If your heart stops again you're left there to die.

Prisons all over America are releasing prisoners. Some of them quite dangerous.

A couple of days ago my county suspended habeas corpus. The last time that I know of that habeas corpus was suspended was during the civil war. Cops get a bad rap and don't deserve a lot of the flack they get. But they do deserve some of it because there are some bad cops. Either way, you better hope you don't run afoul of a cop in my county anytime soon because you could disappear into the system and not be seen for weeks or months.

Trump floated the idea of a federal quarantine of New York and then backed off when Cuomo had kittens.

For a short period of time the governor of Rhode Island enacted de facto martial law and had the National Guard going door-to-door, in direct violation of the Fourth amendment, literally hunting for escaped New Yorkers so they could be forced quarantined in place. She stopped it when Cuomo had kittens.

Fauci said that the US will have to remain on complete lockdown until there are no new cases and no new deaths. That is just bat crap insane. That could take years. China is now reporting that they're just beginning the start of a second wave. Who knows how bad it'll be. Hopefully not bad at all. But that just goes to show that even with Draconian containment measures the body count is not going to drop to zero anytime soon.

Last I heard there were police on several interstates in Florida stopping people with out-of-state plates coming into the state wanting to know why.

Last I heard a couple of states were now authorizing their police departments to pull over anyone driving with out-of-state plates.

There are problems developing with the American food supply chain that go beyond people hoarding or shifting resources from restaurants to grocery stores. The problems in the supply chain are now backing up all the way to the farm fields to the point that dairy farmers are having to dump milk on the ground.

More and more municipalities in the US are starting to enact fines for violating various aspects of the quarantine measures. Some small town I never heard of in Texas now has $1,000 fine for leaving your house without a mask.

I can keep going. But you get the idea.

This is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets any better.

Last edited by ReformedTechie; 04-05-2020 at 12:31 AM.
 
Old 04-05-2020, 12:51 AM   #306
Turbocapitalist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedTechie View Post
China is now reporting that they're just beginning the start of a second wave.
Interestingly some noticed that it started to show up in logs before the official announcement. https://mastodon.social/@pitrh/103930949200965225
 
Old 04-05-2020, 04:56 AM   #307
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgibson1981 View Post
I'm finding an interesting side effect of this pandemic. With very few exceptions people in my area seem to be much kinder and forgiving to each other in grocery stores or wherever people still are at. It's just not like it was a few months ago.
I am experiencing the same.
People take their kids to the forest, the kids look happy, everyone seems happy and is smiling at strangers (a rarity in this nordic country).
Even teenagers and young adults go out to smoke a fag & have some beer together - properly distancing themselves of course.

Also +1 for how our government is handling things. Not blaming each other, real teamwork. Less susceptible to big corporations promising to "help out" with big data apps.
 
Old 04-05-2020, 05:20 AM   #308
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One thing is definitely going to change: people will not go back to flying to exotic locations for their holidays. They will be too scared to do so, now that they have seen how easy it is to get stranded with your money all gone and no way home. And the cruising market will probably never recover either because now "cruise liner" has become a synonym for "plague ship". I can't imagine any kind of marketing that will wipe that out.

There will definitely be some practical changes in the way businesses operate. Working from home will become more widespread, now that it has been shown to be feasible. It will have the advantage for employers that they can shrink their office buildings and shift them into the country where rents are lower; I think that those who can will seize the opportunity.

In manufacturing, the just-in-time philosophy will give way to a heightened concern for security of supply. Before the crisis, shellfish caught in Scotland were shipped to Thailand to be de-shelled and then back to the UK for sale, because Thai labour was cheaper. I don't think businesses will want to take such risks again.

I would like to think that there will be some moral improvements too, as there were after the 2nd world war. We got the National Health Service because people had learned to share and share alike, thanks to rationing and the Blitz. Perhaps there will be a reassessment of how people are paid for the work they do, now that we know who the real key workers are. But I'm a lot less optimistic about that than about the other changes I've mentioned..
 
Old 04-05-2020, 05:57 AM   #309
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
  • people will not go back to flying to exotic locations for their holidays.
  • the cruising market will probably never recover either because now “cruise liner” has become a synonym for “plague ship”.
  • Working from home will become more widespread, now that it has been shown to be feasible.
  • In manufacturing, the just-in-time philosophy will give way to a heightened concern for security of supply.
  • Perhaps there will be a reassessment of how people are paid for the work they do, now that we know who the real key workers are.
I truly hope you will prove to be right on all these points!
 
Old 04-05-2020, 06:38 AM   #310
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i am feeling quite good atm, it wasn't covid for sure.
maybe a common cold that i got while walking at park.
 
Old 04-05-2020, 07:57 AM   #311
teckk
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Quote:
"cruise liner" has become a synonym for "plague ship"
Those cruse ships have had sickness outbreaks on them for years now. Hasn't stopped people. Short memory I guess.

Quote:
In manufacturing, the just-in-time philosophy will give way to a heightened concern for security of supply.
In the US they started that stuff in the 1980's. The government started taxing warehouse inventory. That's where just in time inventory started, to pay less tax.

Quote:
We got the National Health Service because people had learned to share and share alike, thanks to rationing and the Blitz.
Americans don't like each other, period. "I'm not paying for that other person/group that I don't like." Plus we know that the private sector can do things better/cheeper/faster than big bureaucracies. We also don't like being taxed. Australia has a very good health care system. But it's citizens pay as much as a 55% tax rate. People there try to trade things so no money changes hands, to get around it, so they criminalized bartering, you can get fined for it.

Quote:
Perhaps there will be a reassessment of how people are paid for the work they do
There are several problems here. In a time when wealth disparity is greater than it has been since the 1930's. Where we desperately need labor union participation in the workplace. When offered to unionize, shops turn the unions down. Why pay dues to someone who won't represent you. Or take your union dues and give them to political causes that are so offensive it makes you want to spit.

Then there is cheep illegal alien labor, poorly paid other country labor that keeps wages down. When another country can produce goods, pay to have them shipped across an ocean, retail them on the store shelves for less than what it costs to make them in your own country, something is wrong here.

So, I'm not all that optimistic about great change happening.

@////// outstanding! I'm Glad.

In the news.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-orl...u-s-1158600880
https://apnews.com/75e97a636f40bcd98f0827dfaa09e3ff
https://www.chron.com/news/article/D...n-15179476.php
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yor...res-1158600880
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-half-NYC.html
https://news.trust.org/item/20200404221623-8v66x
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/04/82674...virus-pandemic
https://news.trust.org/item/20200404235657-jkjit
https://www.lmtonline.com/news/artic...s-15179067.php
https://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/front-pages.cfm
 
Old 04-05-2020, 08:02 AM   #312
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocapitalist View Post
Interestingly some noticed that it started to show up in logs before the official announcement. https://mastodon.social/@pitrh/103930949200965225
Isn't that stuff mostly automated? Why would covid slow down brute force attempts?
 
Old 04-05-2020, 08:16 AM   #313
Turbocapitalist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
Isn't that stuff mostly automated? Why would covid slow down brute force attempts?
Yes much of it is automated, but staff are still needed to herd the bots. If staff are out of commission so are the bot nets. Another factor in bot herding would be looser or tighter settings in the Great Firewall of China. During tougher lockdowns, the Great Firewall lets less through. However, the decline is probably due more to a matter of staffing, I would guess.

Interestingly the former cottage industry of Windoze bot nets has grown into a full fledged international market with backing from more than one state power. As for lock down, in a similar way, it may be that nearly all of the "this is Windows calling, your computer has a virus" calls have stopped the same time India locked down.

I suppose there will be people interested enough to study both activities relative to SARS-CoV-2. I'm not except to occasionally note how it vastly increases the total cost of ownership of Windoze deployments and should stop being excluded from such calculations. There are not any legitimate reasons (technical, economical, independence, etc) not to be using as much Free and Open Source Software as possible, and aiming to be 100% there.
 
Old 04-05-2020, 10:11 AM   #314
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Call me Debbie Downer. I don't really see any Kumbaya moments coming out of this. Then again I have zero faith in humanity. Some individuals are OK. But in groups larger than two stupidity and panic grows nearly exponentially; especially in times like these.

I think the biggest consequence of this is one of the most under-reported aspects: The effects of all of the "stimulus" bills that have been passed in the US so far, with the possibility of more on the way.

I am no expert on this stuff. I just try to follow along, cut through the jargon and acronyms and extract the concepts; which is hard to do when you have to rely on someone else's interpretation of a 1K page law written to intentionally confound a team of constitutional lawyers.

From what I've been reading several measures in the new law, when combined, in effect roll the Federal Reserve into the Treasury Department in all but name. The combo basically gives the Secretary of the Treasury the ability to print almost limitless amounts of money. Hell I even read a direct quote from some junior level butt-head at the Federal Reserve stating that it's no problem for the Fed to print all the money they want because "we create it electronically"! (Facepalm)

The SoT serves at the pleasure of the President. If he's instructed to print unlimited money and refuses then he's out of a job. And I'm sure Trump can find someone who will.

I am no fan of any politician on any side of any issue. They're worse than lawyers. However I agree with Trump on some stuff just as I agree with the less radical Democrats on some stuff. But I don't trust any of them. And while I do think Trump is right about more stuff than he's been given credit for I have never liked his personality. IMHO giving someone with his personality traits the ability, even indirectly, to print nearly limitless money is liking putting matches into the hands of a pyro.

The really bad thing is this won't stop with him, even if he's replaced in November. I don't trust Sleepy Joe or Sleazy Cuomo with that kind of power either.

But, even not speculating about the future, what has already happened is scary enough. Congress authorized $2T in "stimulus". The Federal Reserve authorized $4T in "stimulus" for a total of $6T scheduled to be injected into the money supply shortly. And reading some people who claim they know what they are talking about if you go down the rabbit hole and add in all of the back door stuff it's actually up to $12T that has already been authorized.

You cannot inject that kind of money into the system and expect zero inflation. Since the Dollar is the world reserve currency serious devaluation causes a host of cascading economic problems that will affect pretty much everyone on the planet.

I have no idea how bad those repercussions will be.

Reading the more moderate doomsayers who are not calling for Armageddon with their chicken bones, crystal balls and mathematical models then on the heavy end we are looking at a Depression that will make the 1930's look like a cake walk. On the light end they are saying that 6-12 months from now the cheap, nasty, chemical and sawdust Walmart bread will be $10-15 a loaf.

I don't have any faith in prognosticators either. They are usually wrong. But this is starting to trend from flat out stupid to frickin' terrible.

If they don't restart the economy pretty quick and they keep up with the jack-booted-thug crap until such times as there are severe disruptions in the food supply there will be, at a minimum, widespread civil unrest.

Last edited by ReformedTechie; 04-05-2020 at 11:43 AM. Reason: typo
 
Old 04-05-2020, 11:45 AM   #315
teckk
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I don't quit understand that either. I seems to me that if you print more money, then you devalue the money already in existence, which should lead to inflation. And I think that it would if the normal laws of supply and demand were allowed to operate. The Fed has been arbitrarily holding down interest rates for years now trying to stimulate the economy.

We don't have any money. There is nothing behind it. This has to blow up at some point.
https://usdebtclock.org/
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp

There is already a little civil unrest. NY is boarding up the first floors of stores.

I thought that we might be on the downward side of this by now. So did the leaders.
 
  


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