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Old 02-15-2019, 08:26 AM   #301
hydrurga
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Regarding the latest code, I am not very good at checking out code, but here are some thoughts:

. For the first three choices where print_out is 0, 1 or 2, why don't you consider amalgamating these all together (>=0 and <=2)? The "print_out = values[2];" line can use the print_out variable to select the array element rather than a constant (0, 1, 2).

. Personally, I wouldn't use the same variable for two purposes. You're using print_out as the original user choice and also as the output value. If you use separate variables then you will always have access to the original input value if you need it, i.e. you won't lose that value by overwriting it.

. I'm not sure you actually need the loopVar variable. It's an infinite loop with the value of print_out providing the escape route, and you increment the print_out value within the loop anyway.

. Array indices start at 0, so why don't you use values[0]? It might be better to use it just so that you get used to doing so. Many coding problems have been caused by folk forgetting that [0] is the first array element. It's not obligatory in this case (you can use any array elements that you wish to store your values) but it's good practice.
 
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:57 AM   #302
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Thanks hydrurga!

Yeah, I should have thought of that before, so I changed it like you said;

Code:
#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{
    int enteredNumber, print_out;
    int values[4];

    puts("Enter a number: ");
    scanf("%i", &enteredNumber);
        
    values[1] = 111;
    values[2] = 2222;
    values[3] = 33333;
    
    if ( ( enteredNumber >= 1 ) && ( enteredNumber <= 3 ) ) {
       print_out = values[enteredNumber];
       printf("Result: %i\n", print_out);

    }   

    else if ( enteredNumber == 4 ) {
         
    for( print_out = 1; print_out <= 210; ) {    
        print_out = values[1];
        ++values[1]; 
        printf("Array result: %i\n", print_out);
        } 
    }

    else {
         puts("You entered an invalid choice - computer says no!");

    }

    return 0;
}

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 02-15-2019 at 10:07 AM. Reason: fixed typo and forgot to remove loopVar
 
Old 02-15-2019, 10:10 AM   #303
rtmistler
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I don't like the exercise or the code as written.

Since you're learning arrays, as stated by hydrurga, start at index [0]. (Noting that you "said" you did as they wrote, but you did not.)

Initialize an array.

Then print it out.

Once you understand the contents of an array, then modify it and print it out again.

Get all the scanf() and if-test conditions out of your way, and learn how to understand, an array first.

If I give you the code:
Code:
#include <stdio.h>

void main(void)
{
    char myArray[6] = { 'a', 'b', ' ', 0x41, 0x42, 0xff };

    printf("myArray values: [0]: %#02x [1]: %#02x [2]: %#02x [3]: %#02x [4]: %#02x [5]: %#02x\n",
           myArray[0], myArray[1], myArray[2], myArray[3], myArray[4], myArray[5]);
}
Do you understand it? Yes, or no?
 
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Old 02-15-2019, 10:26 AM   #304
jsbjsb001
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I'm not sure what you mean by "Noting that you "said" you did as they wrote, but you did not.". But I did do the changes hydrurga said, but I forgot to remove loopVar - but I did edit my post above just before you responded RT. But yes, I think I understand the code you've posted though. (but yes, I forgot to start at index[0], sorry)

The following is Program 7.1 in the same chapter in the C book I'm following, that's why I wrote the code the way I did.

Code:
#include <stdio.h>

int main(void)
{

    int values[10];
    int index;

    values[0] = 197;
    values[2] = -100;
    values[5] = 350;
    values[3] = values[0] + values[5];
    values[9] =
    values[5] / 10;
    --values[2];

    for ( index= 0; index < 10; ++index )
         printf("values[%i] = %i\n", index, values[index]);

    return 0;
}

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 02-15-2019 at 10:30 AM. Reason: forgot index[0] comment
 
Old 02-15-2019, 12:12 PM   #305
hydrurga
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Good one JSB. You nicely took on most of my points, showing that you understand the code.

A couple of further comments:

. Try placing the three constants into the first three elements of the array, i.e. 0, 1 and 2, but retain the input choices for these as 1, 2, and 3 (think of them as "First choice", "Second choice", etc.). Before you do this, have a think about what else you will need to change in the code to accommodate this modified approach (hint: there are only two additional modifications to make that I can see and one concerns the size of the array).

. The lines:

Code:
print_out = values[1];
        ++values[1];
can be amalgamated into one. How?

. Indent the code within the "enteredNumber == 4" section to show that it is at a different level to the rest of the code.

Just a general note about amalgamating the first three choices into one block of code, which you successfully did. I do this a lot whenever I'm programming (although that isn't much these days, and it's not with C) - I look for repeated code and work out if I can incorporate it into a single block of code. Sometimes it can end up being so complicated that it isn't worthwhile, but often it can result in shorter and more manageable code (for example, you are not repeating a lot of the same code and therefore the chance of making mistakes between those different code sections is reduced; also any changes to the code only have to be made to one code block, not several very similar ones).

Last edited by hydrurga; 02-15-2019 at 12:24 PM.
 
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:14 PM   #306
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What I meant was that you promptly ignored the exact recommendation to start at index 0.

You do realize that uninitialized local variables can be any value?

When you have this new array and you don't set it all to zeros, the values in the array are "undefined", they will be whatever memory garbage happens to be there. And since you are not initializing all elements of the array to some value, then the result is that whatever is in those uninitialized locations is random information.

Next the line:
Code:
    values[9] =
    values[5] / 10;
is one single line of syntax, and yes it is correct. However it belies how you've written all of your other lines of code to initialize your array.

Last edited by rtmistler; 02-15-2019 at 12:20 PM.
 
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:21 PM   #307
hydrurga
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<Oops> Apologies. Please ignore.
 
Old 02-16-2019, 12:18 AM   #308
jsbjsb001
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RT, I didn't "promptly ignore" anything, I simply *forgot* to change it to [0] for the array - I did say this in my post above. And I'm not trying to be rude to anyone, but if I'm going to continue to be accused of "ignoring people", then it doesn't make me want to continue with this thread - because it's simply *not* true. If I was going to "ignore" people responding, then there's little point in even starting the thread to begin with, and therefore I would *not* have bothered. I've only just started to read the chapter I'm up to now.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying about "setting it all to zeros", so I don't know exactly what you mean there - other than what you've said.

I made up my own exercise based on the example (Program 7.1) in the C book I posted before. As opposed to doing it on the one or two lines like you did above - that's what I meant. I posted that example so you could see what I was actually talking about when I said "that's why I wrote it the why I did". I didn't say I copy and pasted the example and changed a few things around. I wrote it out myself what I did, while looking at the example code in the C book - to try and get a better understanding of the concept behind arrays.
 
Old 02-16-2019, 01:17 PM   #309
rtmistler
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Then please excuse the verbiage.

Not trying to cause disagreement, I am crtiquing the code I see.

Seems as if you're not always understanding my points. I'll leave it be.

Your code is improving.
 
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Old 02-16-2019, 06:55 PM   #310
astrogeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
RT, I didn't "promptly ignore" anything, I simply *forgot* to change it to [0] for the array - I did say this in my post above...
There is no need to become defensive, rtmistler was simply pointing out that you never showed in your posts that you actually understood the point that had been made. That is in fact a recurring theme in this thread that we need to work on correcting. The object is to make sure that you are in fact understanding and benefitting from the advice given.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying about "setting it all to zeros", so I don't know exactly what you mean there - other than what you've said....
If you did not understand it, then you should ask for clarification and work on it, continuously, until you do understand it. If you do not understand, but try to move on anyway, then you have not benefitted from the point being made and eventually others may begin to think that their time has been wasted. Let us not sail into those waters!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I made up my own exercise based on the example (Program 7.1) in the C book I posted before...
It is very good that you make up your own examples, in endless variations! That is the best way to consolidate your knowledge once you understand some particular concept.

But this thread has to some extent turned into a series of made up examples which often do not demonstrate or explore any particular concept, ask any particular question or show any particular skill that you have gained.

I refrained myself from commenting on this post previously, but I think it is important to your learning progress to point it out at this time as you are again attempting to move on to another chapter...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Anyway, I've reached the end of the "Making Decisions" chapter (chapter 6). I think I've already done most of the exercises at the end of it in one way or another by now. While I've already written a basic calculator, other than what the word implies, I don't know exactly what it means by "accumulator". In regards to exercise 6, while I figured it's probably a switch statement, and a loop of some description involved, I have no idea about the mathematics behind it, so I'll skip that one as well. And pretty much the same story with exercise 7 - in that, I don't even know how to begin with the mathematics behind "improving" Program 6.10 in the C book.
Then you should definitely not be trying to move on to the next chapter!

You either did, or did not do the exercises - there is no one way or another about it.

The problem pointed out by rtmistler is the same one demonstrated here - if you don't get some concept, and show that you have gotten it, then it begins to look very much like you simply ignored it, just as you are ignoring the exercises in the book which you do not understand. Those exercises, like the advice given in this thread, are there for your benefit. But you only benefit if you gain knowledge from it, and can make use of the knowledge so gained.

So I am going to ask you to stick to the book, and the exercises in the book for now, and not post made up exercises. Let's return to Chapter 6, Making Decisions, and work through the exercises at the end of that chapter before we move on to Chapter 7, Working With Arrays. And if you encounter difficulties with those exercises, let's step back to Chapter 5, Program Looping, and continue that process until we establish what you have gotten, and what you have not gotten.

Let's start with exercises 5, 6 and 7 from Chapter 6:

Quote:
5. You developed Program 5.9 to reverse the digits of an integer typed in from the
terminal. However, this program does not function well if you type in a negative
number. Find out what happens in such a case and then modify the program so
that negative numbers are correctly handled. For example, if the number –8645 is
typed in, the output of the program should be 5468–.

6. Write a program that takes an integer keyed in from the terminal and extracts and
displays each digit of the integer in English. So, if the user types in 932, the pro-
gram should display
nine three two
Remember to display “zero” if the user types in just a 0. (Note: This exercise is a
hard one!)

7. Program 6.10 has several inefficiencies. One inefficiency results from checking
even numbers. Because it is obvious that any even number greater than 2 cannot
be prime, the program could simply skip all even numbers as possible primes and
as possible divisors.The inner for loop is also inefficient because the value of p is
always divided by all values of d from 2 through p–1.This inefficiency could be
avoided by adding a test for the value of isPrime in the conditions of the for
loop. In this manner, the for loop could be set up to continue as long as no divi-
sor was found and the value of d was less than p. Modify Program 6.10 to incor-
porate these two changes.Then run the program to verify its operation. (Note: In
Chapter 7, you discover even more efficient ways of generating prime numbers.)
Show us that you understand the concepts required by exercise 5, or if you are stuck on it, you know where to ask for friendly help! Then exercse 6 which is a very good one! then in turn, exercise 7...

The reward of those trying to help is to see you learn - reward them generously!
 
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:05 PM   #311
jsbjsb001
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Like I said before, I wasn't trying to be rude to anyone, let alone "ignore" anyone. I'm sorry if it come across that way. I just didn't see the point in banging my head against a brick wall.

I can see what the code for "Program 5.9" (in chapter 5 "Program Looping" - exercise 5) is doing, but I have no idea why it's doing it - other than it "reverses" the digits of the entered numbers. That's why I didn't do that exercise.

I did look up the code for exercise 6 in chapter 6 "Making Decisions", and while like I said before, figured it involved a switch statement and a loop of some description before I looked up the code for it; I have no idea how to do the maths behind it. I can once again see what the code is doing, but have no idea about the math behind it. I could have just copied and pasted the code from this link, but all that means is that I've just copied what someone else has done, and therefore still have no idea about the maths behind it. Therefore learnt little to nothing, therefore that would be just wasting people's time, not to mention my own time. That's why I didn't bother to do it.

Regarding exercise 7 in Chapter 6 "Making Decisions"; I have no idea how to "improve" "Program 6.10", which is why I didn't bother with that exercise.

That's why I was making up my own exercises, to try and understand the concepts in an easier way, that didn't involve maths I couldn't understand. I wasn't trying to ignore what anyone said, but I did have to think about how I could make things easier on myself. It wasn't to ignore anyone, sorry once again if that's how it come across - it wasn't the intention. I don't honestly know how to explain any better than that.

I'm honestly not trying to be rude or funny to anyone, but I don't see the point in pretending that I can do something I can't. Because to my way thinking that really would be wasting people's time, and that's not something I want to do or am trying to do. I honestly have tried my best to try and understand what you guys have said, while in a lot of cases I think I have, I will admit in some cases I've thought "well perhaps with more practice the point they were making will become more clear to me later on". I've honestly not "ignored" anyone, that's why I said what I said before.

But all of that said, perhaps it's better if I either just call it a day or just try and understand what I can, and just do it by myself, as I don't wish to waste anyone's time. Like I said before, I didn't start this thread to waste people's time, but yes, I did underestimate the math involved, so I will admit that, as that's very true.

Sorry for the trouble.
 
Old 02-16-2019, 09:14 PM   #312
hydrurga
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How about a mixture of the two then? You do all the exercises for each chapter and have a good go at understanding them (with our help when you're having difficulty understanding specific concepts - please let us know when you do have such difficulties), not moving on to the next chapter until you do so. However, you also add self-created exercises when you see fit (I personally think these are good for you too - they make you think about what you want to create).

There really is no rush. You're learning well. No reason to give up at this stage.

And anyway, you still haven't made the further mods to that self-created program I commented on. I'm waiting with bated breath.

Last edited by hydrurga; 02-16-2019 at 09:16 PM.
 
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:46 PM   #313
jsbjsb001
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I would do the exercises in the book if I had any idea about the maths behind, but I don't. I don't know how to better explain that, if I did, I would. But I do see the point you're making, don't get me wrong.

Just to be clear: I meant before that "there is a lot of concepts to cover, not just a few simple concepts", not "I'm going to rush to finish the book". I'm quite happy to take extra time if needed. But like I said before, it's getting really frustrating in terms of the maths, so I'm not sure I ever will understand that. And if it's going to take forever to understand the math behind it, then maybe I'm better off just forgetting about it.

In all honestly, I've had some kind of cold over the past couple of days, so I haven't read much, if close to anything, let alone tried to do any code. Even as I type this my nose is running like a tap. So I've been too sick to try modding the program I wrote that you refer to.
 
Old 02-16-2019, 09:50 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I would do the exercises in the book if I had any idea about the maths behind, but I don't. I don't know how to better explain that, if I did, I would. But I do see the point you're making, don't get me wrong.

Just to be clear: I meant before that "there is a lot of concepts to cover, not just a few simple concepts", not "I'm going to rush to finish the book". I'm quite happy to take extra time if needed. But like I said before, it's getting really frustrating in terms of the maths, so I'm not sure I ever will understand that. And if it's going to take forever to understand the math behind it, then maybe I'm better off just forgetting about it.

In all honestly, I've had some kind of cold over the past couple of days, so I haven't read much, if close to anything, let alone tried to do any code. Even as I type this my nose is running like a tap. So I've been too sick to try modding the program I wrote that you refer to.
Reminds me of the old joke - What's the cure for water on the brain? A tap on the nose.

There really is no hurry. What I suggest is that you pull into the C motorway service station and have a pause anyway. Have a look back at what you've learned so far from the book. If there are any chapters or exercises that you haven't understood then we can go through these issues, one by one, and see if there are other ways of explaining the concepts involved. You will be taking stock, in effect, before moving on.

Get well soon.
 
Old 02-17-2019, 12:54 AM   #315
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrurga View Post
Reminds me of the old joke - What's the cure for water on the brain? A tap on the nose.
Can't say I've heard of that one, so it's a new one on me.

Quote:
There really is no hurry. What I suggest is that you pull into the C motorway service station and have a pause anyway. Have a look back at what you've learned so far from the book. If there are any chapters or exercises that you haven't understood then we can go through these issues, one by one, and see if there are other ways of explaining the concepts involved. You will be taking stock, in effect, before moving on.
I'm not really in any hurry, particularly since it doesn't seem to matter what I try and do in this world, there is always someone or something that's just waiting to throw up yet another roadblock on me - regardless of what it is I try and do.

It's not what it's asking me to do, or even really the code itself that's the problem. It's pretty clear what it's asking me to do, the code I'd need to write for the most part is fairly obvious. But as for the maths behind it, I don't have a clue what I'm supposed to do, let alone why or how I'm supposed to do it, other than, there clearly is some reason behind it. It's like what astrogeek said in post #296. But I'm just too stupid when it comes to the mathematics behind it, to understand it. So I think it's probably just time to say "I tried, and failed". As there is no point in beating my head against a brick wall. I'm sure with all the good advice you guys have given in this thread many others will benefit from it. At least I know more than what I did before about programming if nothing else.

Quote:
Get well soon.
While my nose is still running like a tap, I think it's starting to clear up now.

EDIT: While I'm in two minds about continuing to try and learn anymore concepts about C, I don't wish to waste anyone's time nor do I wish for people to feel that way about it. So while I honestly don't know if I will continue with learning C or not, and as much as I would like to; I think the best thing to do given the situation, is to call it a day with this thread (and quite possibly learning C). As I said before, I'm sure this thread will help others, as even with my limited knowledge of C, I can see how it would really help others. So even if I don't continue with it, at least others can and very likely will be helped by this thread, so it was still worth starting it.

I'm sorry, but the maths is just too hard for me to understand, and it's probably going to take forever for me to able to understand it. Call me quitter if you will (I've been called far worse, so go for it, that's fine), but I have to be realistic about it. I don't believe in kidding myself, let alone anyone else, as it's not fair on anyone. So it is what it is. I'm *not* trying to be ungrateful or whatever, I just don't like people thinking/feeling like they are wasting their time. I honestly did try my best with this, and I've never tried so hard with anything else in my life.

Thanks to everyone that tried to help. I'll be forever grateful for all of your efforts. Thanks again.

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 02-17-2019 at 03:40 AM. Reason: additions
 
  


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