LinuxQuestions.org
Review your favorite Linux distribution.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 11-27-2020, 12:44 PM   #61
teckk
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Distribution: FreeBSD Arch
Posts: 3,095

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869

65 dead per hour.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...us/6434141002/

Teeth falling out.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/1868234...eeth-fall-out/

https://www.businessinsider.com/make...itions-2020-11
 
Old 11-27-2020, 01:31 PM   #62
business_kid
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Distribution: Slackware, Pi OS & Android
Posts: 12,048

Rep: Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Can't do that, it's racist, don't you know that? We gave IQ tests to people in the US years ago, Conclusion...not that some people are smarter than others, no, IQ tests are racist.

So, instead of trying to identify the lesser IQ people and bring those people up to the standards of the better IQ people, lets bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator so that it's fair. And Viola. Ever see the dumb little movie called "Idiocracy"?

That show wasn't suppose to be a documentary on Modern day America.
You're right, of course. I'm over generalizing. It was done unfairly in the early-mid 20th century by many countries under the guise of Eugenics. The "Scientific" work on Eugenics before WW2 was pretty heavily pro-eugenics, leading to Hitler's solution of pruning the human family tree

I should have phrased that differently.
 
Old 11-28-2020, 02:01 AM   #63
obobskivich
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2020
Distribution: Xubuntu / Slackware
Posts: 191

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Can I see some proof for that?

The modern day invention of Hate Speech means, You said something that I don't like so I will cry hate speech to make you not speak. Another words silencing of free speech.

SCOTUS has actually ruled on "hate speech" throughout the 20th century (whether the 20th century is "modern day" depends on your POV I guess - for some people the 1960s is still "modern" but for others its "a long time ago"). Brandenburg v Ohio (395 US 444) in 1969 established a test for 'hate speech' falling out of 1A protection if it seeks to cause "imminent lawless action." Additionally, Times v Sullivan (376 US 254) established the "actual malice" burden for public figures when considering 1A protections - speech is only unprotected when "actual malice" can be proven (at least for public figures (this has a specific legal meaning), for private citizens the burden is lower afaik). Both of these cases have their roots in the Civil Rights movement in the 1960s.

The tl;dr is that you and michaelk are probably both right - your example of being assaulted for expressing religious views is likely right (and in that case you'd probably have additional protections because its about religious discrimination, so could technically become a 'hate crime' as well), but the 1A does not protect speech that directly incites harm or damage(s) to a party ("imminent lawless action"). This goes from 'obvious' to 'blurry' fairly quickly from my understanding - so the 'obvious' side is for example hiring a hitman - that's obviously un-protected speech and illegal on many fronts, but the 'blurry' side is something more nebulous like 'inciting a race war' (e.g. Charles Manson).

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Can't do that, it's racist, don't you know that? We gave IQ tests to people in the US years ago, Conclusion...not that some people are smarter than others, no, IQ tests are racist.

So, instead of trying to identify the lesser IQ people and bring those people up to the standards of the better IQ people, lets bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator so that it's fair. And Viola. Ever see the dumb little movie called "Idiocracy"?

That show wasn't suppose to be a documentary on Modern day America.
There's three fundamental problems with this:
1) The implicit assumption that 'IQ tests' are objective or accurate, and somehow free of observer and confirmation biases (which they are not).
2) That IQ is a simple, heritable trait (it is not believed to be).
3) That some class/group of people need to be 'fixed' by some other class/group of their 'betters.'
 
Old 11-28-2020, 03:18 PM   #64
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 3,162

Rep: Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173Reputation: 3173
Isn't it fascinating that some here think their available news is mostly dominated by Conservatives while others consider most new sources "The Liberal Media" Despite the various algorithms that feed us ever more of what we apparently visit or like, it is possible to view a variety of sources of differing, even opposing, POV if one actually bothers to seek them out.
 
Old 11-28-2020, 04:53 PM   #65
Hermani
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Delden, NL
Distribution: Ubuntu
Posts: 247
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Can't do that, it's racist, don't you know that? We gave IQ tests to people in the US years ago, Conclusion...not that some people are smarter than others, no, IQ tests are racist.
I do not follow you. What does IQ have to do with race? And then again, a high IQ does not qualify one for more influence.

To treat people in any patronising way is, in my view, a mistake.
 
Old 11-28-2020, 05:13 PM   #66
teckk
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2004
Distribution: FreeBSD Arch
Posts: 3,095

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869Reputation: 869
Quote:
What does IQ have to do with race
Nothing, just one of those ideologies/alternate realities that have been shoved on the country. Everyone is a victim. No one is responsible for themselves.

You can't demand or encourage the lesser achieving to do better. It's wrong for kids to play baseball and for 1 team to win. That would damage the fragile little psyche of the loosing team. Hence, kindergarten style safe spaces in the nations universities.

Sophomores in college studying what once was learned in 4th-5th grade. And a gradual decline in IQ among students. In fact, the students were scoring so poorly on the psat and sat tests, and we looked so bad compared to the other nations, we dumbed down the test so that students would score better. That happened in the 1980's. Scores seem to have rebounded since then.

The reason that IQ tests were dropped in the US is that some groups did poorer than other groups. No matter how much taxpayer money was thrown at it, the scores stayed lower. Hence, they are racist.

Last edited by teckk; 11-28-2020 at 05:16 PM.
 
Old 11-29-2020, 03:49 AM   #67
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 4,874
Blog Entries: 14

Rep: Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739Reputation: 2739
Actually covid itself raises a very good example of this kind of question. Everyone knows that black and south Asian people are more likely to die of covid than white people. Does this mean that they really have a higher susceptibility to covid for genetic reasons? Or is it a reflection of racism in society? For example, it's often pointed out that BAME people are more likely to be poor, to have a poor diet, live in crowded housing and do jobs like driving buses and hospital portering that put them at higher risk. In other words, covid isn't racist (perish the thought!); society is racist.

But it's not so simple. For example recent research shows that black (Afro-Caribbean) people are more likely to catch covid than white people but no more likely to die of it when that is allowed for, whereas South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis) are more likely to catch it as well as more likely to develop complications. Indians mostly have good jobs and a high standard of living but they also have a tradition of working in the medical sector, which puts them at greater risk. Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are more likely to be poor. Black and South Asian people are all highly likely to live in multi-generational households, which puts them at greater risk of infection, but that is a matter of cultural choice for them and not the outcome of racism.

All these groups also have high levels of type 2 diabetes, which is another well-known risk factor for dying of covid. This may be due to poverty and therefore, perhaps, to racism; a diabetogenic diet is cheaper! But again, that doesn't explain the high rates of diabetes among Indians, who earn more on average than white people do.

It's simply too easy to write off discrepancies of this kind as a proof of racism.
 
Old 11-29-2020, 03:33 PM   #68
Hermani
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Delden, NL
Distribution: Ubuntu
Posts: 247
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
It's simply too easy to write off discrepancies of this kind as a proof of racism.
As a qualified medical doctor I can assure you that doctors know there is a difference between people with DNA of different origin (I carefully don't use the 'R' word because it triggers people). For instance, betablockers work way less with people that have a lot of DNA from late African descend and I usually prescribe calcium antagonists with better results. People originating from Indonesia should react the same to betablockers as people originating from Germany but I can assure you that in reality it is different. And there are more examples of course.

Discrepancies exist and there always will be. If everyone would not take those discrepancies a step further, life would be SO much easier for everyone.
 
Old 11-30-2020, 12:18 AM   #69
ondoho
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,925
Blog Entries: 10

Rep: Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677Reputation: 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Everyone knows that black and south Asian people are more likely to die of covid than white people. Does this mean that they really have a higher susceptibility to covid for genetic reasons? Or is it a reflection of racism in society?
The latter is certainly true for e.g. the Divided States of North America.
Which doesn't necessarily contradict the former.

BTW, according to your definition I am not Everybody...
 
Old Yesterday, 09:58 AM   #70
business_kid
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Distribution: Slackware, Pi OS & Android
Posts: 12,048

Rep: Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420
Personally, I think you're into what Churchill called "Lies, Damned Lies, & Statistics" where this is headed. I don't regard Churchill as any paragon of virtue either, btw.

In the Excited States the amount of refined food eaten by poorer folks is alarming, and they suffer as a result. Ethnic stores have much less fresh food generally. The amount of GMO food eaten is staggering. It's banned in Europe. What's baffling me is that people don't die like flies 100% of the time over there.
 
Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM   #71
boughtonp
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 840

Rep: Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid View Post
...what Churchill called "Lies, Damned Lies, & Statistics" where this is headed. I don't regard Churchill as any paragon of virtue either, btw.
Eh? Not sure of the relevance of Churchill for that quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics

The phrase derives from the full sentence, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."; it was popularized in the United States by Mark Twain and others, who mistakenly attributed it to the British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli.[1] The phrase is not found in any of Disraeli's works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. The phrase was attributed to an anonymous writer in mid-1891 and later that year to Sir Charles Dilke, but several others have been listed as originators of the quote, including frequent erroneous attribution to Twain himself.[2][1]

[1]: https://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/lies.htm
[2]: http://jse.amstat.org/v16n2/velleman.html
Given the phrase appeared to grow in popularity around the 1880-1890s it is potentially possible it ultimately originated from a young Churchill (born 1874), but there is zero evidence to even suggest that in those two sources, so it's very likely not the case.

 
Old Yesterday, 12:23 PM   #72
business_kid
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Distribution: Slackware, Pi OS & Android
Posts: 12,048

Rep: Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420
Personally, I don't believe the young Churchill was quotable. Some myopic dweeb quoted him, and I mentioned that attribution. Thanks for the correction.

My point was that the race thing was in danger of becoming a battle of statistics, and they are boring.
 
Old Yesterday, 02:09 PM   #73
boughtonp
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 840

Rep: Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620Reputation: 620

As Socrates once lamented, "That Churchill bloke is another famous figure who 99% of the time didn't say what people said he did, just like me."


I'm not sure if I see where you're coming from though - I don't see stats in any of the past few posts?

 
Old Today, 10:41 AM   #74
business_kid
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Distribution: Slackware, Pi OS & Android
Posts: 12,048

Rep: Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420Reputation: 1420
No - you'll have to go back to #69 and before for that. I have no objections to what was said, but differing opinions are better expressed without mentioning specific racial groups. Especially as regards the Excited States.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: More on COVID Surveillance: Mobile Phone Location LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 05-07-2020 09:51 AM
LXer: Mozilla Supports the Open COVID Pledge: Making Intellectual Property Freely Available for the Fight Against COVID-19 LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 04-10-2020 08:21 AM
LXer: Open source fights against COVID-19, Googles new security tool written in Python, and more open source news LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 03-28-2020 04:20 PM
LXer: This Week in Open Source News: Linux Foundation Training Provides Crucial Team Education, Open Source Leadership Summit News & More LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 02-19-2017 09:24 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration