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Old 06-02-2020, 09:36 AM   #31
Contrapak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quickquestion111 View Post
I hope Trump wins (and in turn the American people), it's high time these fake news outlets are held responsible for perpetuating propaganda that is soley one-sided (while at the same time shadow banning conservative posts). It would be irresponsible as a society to let these tech companies become the arbiter of truth, as that would in turn lead to the rise of technocrats. Do we really want technocrats running a country? We all know the morals/values of Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.

The riots from these extreme leftists that is happening right now is the direct result of fake news.. They sensualize and key in on isolated cases and say things like, "look how rampant racism is, its everywhere and you should be angry!". Then what do you expect when you keep beating that idea into people; eventually you spark a fire (i.e. group think) that becomes very hard to put out.

C'mon guys do you really hold the same amount of disdain towards the president that these thugs do? Think about it, you hold the same political affliation as criminals who set buildings on fire and chant profanities like"F Trump, F Trump". That to me is just yet another piece of telling evidence on who's in the right here. Wake up sheeple!

Dont get me wrong though, Trump I dont think knows alot about 'the cyberspace' so he can overstep. In which case the pushback needs to be bilateral in such situations.
Seek help.
 
Old 06-02-2020, 12:59 PM   #32
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I don't consider Alex Jones to be a conservative. In my opinion he is part of the tinfoil hat group. We have those on both sides.

It is true that the fascist terrorist group antifa is using this to riot and commit acts of domestic terrorism. We have seen them do that before. But...

There was an act of domestic terrorism committed by the police, that was so...uh...you really struggle for the words to describe...police sitting on a mans neck and chest for 9 minutes, while he begged for them to let him breath..., until they killed him. Why would you need to do that to arrest someone? There were 4 cops there. You can't chain his hands and ankles together?

And they knew that they were being recorded. But just sat there on him, with their hands in their pockets, like they were waiting for a bus.

What would make police think that they could do that with impunity. They did not think that they were doing any wrong at all. How do I know that? They looked up at the camera. They knew that they were being recorded. If you thought that you were doing wrong, as soon as the cameras came out you would quit. Then make some excuse later as to why you did that.

Burning things down isn't a solution, but we have police that are either power mad, or they just simply are having mental problems of some kind, or the training that they are getting is bizarre.

And yes American police do treat blacks different than whites. Seen it with my own eyes.

But...How about if we ask another question? What is wrong with black men? Do they have any cope-ability in this?

Here is the formula that we have seen now for years.

1 Police stop a black man for something.

2 Black man refuses to cooperate and follow lawful police orders.

3 Police try to arrest black man, black man resists arrest, police ratchet up the force. Black man is injured or worse in the struggle with police.

4 Left wing media jumps on it, if it is white against black, trying to twist what happened, alters facts, selectively edits audio-video, and helps cause the population to riot. People are injured and killed in riots, property damaged.

6 Black mans mother comes on TV and says my son never did nothing.

7 Race pimps like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are seen on TV.

8 After a while it is learned that black man had a record 2 pages long, and was breaking a law when the police tried to stop him.

9 Long drawn out process for a year, very hard to convict a cop, no one happy with courts verdict.

10 Media punts the story and goes on to the next drive by event where they can attempt to destroy peoples lives and property and ruin careers.

I believe that some police are power mad, seen this for years.
I also know that when a cop tells you that you are under arrest, it isn't optional. If you fight, they will apply more force.
 
Old 06-02-2020, 01:33 PM   #33
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What about Alex Jones, Laura Loomer, Lila Rose, James O'Keefe, Pamela Geller, etc., and now Donald Trump? All conservatives, all censored.
And all crackpots IMHO. Alex Jones as an example was banned from Facebook for hate speech and harassment. Consider how many teenagers have developed depression and committed suicide due to social media hate speech and harassment.

All groups have complained they have been censored by social media for one thing or the other. I am not sympathetic. Social media can propagate false hoods in nano seconds. If one sees the same lies on multiple pages it then becomes taken as fact. It is those (again IMHO) that start to believe that mainstream media is nothing but fake news. Yet with out mainstream news sources they have zero content.

Quote:
The riots from these extreme leftists that is happening right now is the direct result of fake news.
Prove it. Who are your primary sources? Riots like this have been happening for a very long time although the looting and burning in many circumstances was probably started by outside sources. I had first hand observer witness to the Rodney King riots in 1992. People were coming in from all around Los Angles to take advantage of the chaos. It was a terrible mess but it was not started by news media.

The current situation is tragic and should not of happened.

Are you using the term thugs because Trump used it in a tweet? I would guess he knew exactly where the quote looting will lead to shooting came from. He is talking to his base and not the country as a whole which is a shame.

Quote:
It is true that the fascist terrorist group antifa is using this to riot and commit acts of domestic terrorism. We have seen them do that before. But...
antifa is anti-fascist, left wing as an opposition to right wing neo-Nazis and white supremacists. As an opposite conspiracy theory it is actually the right wing extremists that are starting the looting and burning and blaming it on antifa.

"The beatings will continue until the morale improves"

Last edited by michaelk; 06-02-2020 at 01:41 PM.
 
Old 06-02-2020, 04:09 PM   #34
quickquestion111
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Originally Posted by Contrapak View Post
Seek help.
Enjoy being a statistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
Prove it. Who are your primary sources? Riots like this have been happening for a very long time although the looting and burning in many circumstances was probably started by outside sources. I had first hand observer witness to the Rodney King riots in 1992. People were coming in from all around Los Angles to take advantage of the chaos. It was a terrible mess but it was not started by news media.

The current situation is tragic and should not of happened.

Are you using the term thugs because Trump used it in a tweet? I would guess he knew exactly where the quote looting will lead to shooting came from. He is talking to his base and not the country as a whole which is a shame.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
antifa is anti-fascist, left wing as an opposition to right wing neo-Nazis and white supremacists. As an opposite conspiracy theory it is actually the right wing extremists that are starting the looting and burning and blaming it on antifa.

Yes ofc riots always happen, but they happen for different reasons. You would however have to be so far gone liberal (no offense) to believe there's any merit to that conspiracy theory. Remember the quote: "If You Are Not a Liberal at 25, You Have No Heart. If You Are Not a Conservative at 35 You Have No Brain". Who do you see out there that's mostly causing this choas? Young people, not mature adults. People yelling "black lives matter" (a liberal group).You dont see people on the right even protesting, let alone rioting (we have jobs).

When you talk about the extreme right in modern times you're talking about armed right-wing militias (you may call them extreme, I call them patriots). But you dont see these individuals setting towns on fire, or looting and rioting. The whole Neo-Nazi and white supremist thing is long gone. Yeah there's probably a few splinter cells here and there, but their largly non-existant. Now is there some racism thoughout society as a whole, ofcouse (as there is in every country) but it's in no way near as bad in the states as the media makes it out to be. And for damn sure is not bad enough to warrant the type of action that we see folding before our eyes now. I mean c'mon we just had a black president for God sake!

As far as proving anyting you need only watch American media new cycle to see much they stipulate the racist narrative. But as soon as you come to grips that Antifa (now designated as a terrorist group I believe) are largly responsible for many violent protests, you'd realize how ironically facist they are as they use violence as a vehicle to force their agenda onto others.

Last edited by quickquestion111; 06-02-2020 at 05:07 PM.
 
Old 06-02-2020, 07:46 PM   #35
michaelk
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I am not sure what fantasy land you live in.

No Neo-Nazi, white supremacist thing is not gone unless you think that 2017 is ancient history. Its a global thing and Facebook removes accounts of this nature all the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally

If you think that just because we elected an Afro American as president all racism is gone your living in a dream world and have not paid attention to the news lately. Oh wait its all fake.
Your probably not a minority and have no clue about inherent, systematic or cognitive bias.

antifa is not a group but a classification of left wing extremists that are trying to take down the right wing extremists. antifa has been around for decades and was formed to prevent the possibility of another Nazi group trying to take over the world again. They came into the public eye recently at the unite the right rally. The fact some people have designated something that does not exist as a terrorist group is comical. However, they are violent and I agree that much of their tactics seem counterproductive. I have not seen anything in the fake news that indicates who is really responsible but there are always some that take advantage of the situation from all sides. How do you know that no one on the right is protesting? Because there are prominently white upper class people and would never do such a thing?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...celerationism/
 
Old 06-02-2020, 09:50 PM   #36
Contrapak
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Originally Posted by quickquestion111 View Post
Enjoy being a statistic.
A statistic to what? Maybe take off the tin foil hat and walk away from the keyboard. It sounds like you could use some fresh air.
 
Old 06-03-2020, 07:55 AM   #37
quickquestion111
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Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
I am not sure what fantasy land you live in.

No Neo-Nazi, white supremacist thing is not gone unless you think that 2017 is ancient history. Its a global thing and Facebook removes accounts of this nature all the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally

If you think that just because we elected an Afro American as president all racism is gone your living in a dream world and have not paid attention to the news lately. Oh wait its all fake.
Your probably not a minority and have no clue about inherent, systematic or cognitive bias.

antifa is not a group but a classification of left wing extremists that are trying to take down the right wing extremists. antifa has been around for decades and was formed to prevent the possibility of another Nazi group trying to take over the world again. They came into the public eye recently at the unite the right rally. The fact some people have designated something that does not exist as a terrorist group is comical. However, they are violent and I agree that much of their tactics seem counterproductive. I have not seen anything in the fake news that indicates who is really responsible but there are always some that take advantage of the situation from all sides. How do you know that no one on the right is protesting? Because there are prominently white upper class people and would never do such a thing?

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order...celerationism/
I honestly don't know what to tell you, if you cant even admit these rioters are extreme leftists then there's nothing else to say that would be constructive. You're already set in your world view on what you believe to be right. I mean I already told you their chanting "black lives matter", "F Trump", their even rioting at the White House (why would the right do that?). I on the otherhand am open to the idea that there could be rampant underground racism, and I just somehow dont see it. But I dont believe that to be the case, I mean I never came across a white supremacist in my life. And I imagine if any Neo-Nazi/white supremacist tries to start a conflict with black folk (or Hispanic folk such as myself) then it'll end badly for them. There's just not that many of them to enforce their hatred onto others. That Unite the Right rally I believe to be an isolated case with a very limited number of individuals even showing up to it. I cant speak for the rest of the world, but in the case of the U.S. I wouldn't generalize it to be a country with a terrible racism problem just based on a few rallies such as Unite the Right. But I can understand why people like yourself come to that conclusion (the media!).

Last edited by quickquestion111; 06-03-2020 at 08:10 AM.
 
Old 06-03-2020, 08:01 AM   #38
teckk
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Just a few thoughts if you would humor me.

Quote:
If you think that just because we elected an Afro American
Just for facts sake, he was part black. He had more white and arab in him than black. He came from a white womb and a foreign black that never had any American slavery/jimcrow/segregation linage. He was a foreign part black. He was the 5th part black president. Thomas Jefferson was the first. Let me guess. Most people reading this post never knew that. Why? That's not right wing rhetoric, it is fact.

Quote:
I have not seen anything in the fake news that indicates who is really responsible
Of course. Doesn't fit their narrative that they want to push. That kinda proves the point made about them. Within hours of the riots they said KKK types are doing this. They were asked, "Show some proof for that". Oh oh, caught lying again making up stuff, and they shut up and changed the buzz words that they were using.

You are right, have not heard them once denounce antifa for this violence, instead we'll call them uhh...rioters and uhh...outsiders. And by the way, Trump caused it because he says not nice things about people, and, and, and we don't like him.

We know that they are outsiders from the arrest records. The police departments of the towns know. We see them using the terrorist lefts tactics. When is the last time you saw a kkk or white supremacist rally breaking windows, setting police cars on fire, burning buildings down.

They have set churches on fire in the past for people that they don't like. That's a fact.

Quote:
How do you know that no one on the right is protesting?
We do know, they are in there. I don't think that they mix with antifa though. Kind of like water and oil mixed.

The "media" in all this:
Lets see. Cant get Trump on...He touches women, did not win the popular vote, Charlottesville, tax returns, emoluments clause, Trump university, hush money, kids in cages, quanon, rape, Syria, tax evasion, steel dossier, Russia Russia Russia, in bed with Putin, witness intimidation, North Korea, impeachment vote, Comey, Flynn, Kushner, Zelensky, Corona virus, Saying not nice things about people, he refuses to bow to the fake propaganda machine media, he appoints the wrong kind of judges to courts...We're gonna get him this time, he hates black people, he sicks the military on them. He is just like Nixon. Oh boy Oh boy, we got him this time.

We would be SO much better with creepy, touchy feely, partially senile can't remember his own name, Joe Biden. It's still too early to tell about November. Anything could happen.

According to the FBI, there were about 3500 KKK members nationwide before Barry was elected. Another words, a few young idiots in their mommies basement, who talked online. In 1 year that number had grown X10. Is Barry responsible for a rise of white supremacy?

Quote:
Your probably not a minority and have no clue about inherent, systematic or cognitive bias.
That exists. But, black police officers kill more black men than white police officers do. Are those black cops anti black racists?
 
Old 06-03-2020, 08:14 AM   #39
quickquestion111
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Originally Posted by teckk View Post
The "media" in all this:
Lets see. Cant get Trump on...He touches women, did not win the popular vote, Charlottesville, tax returns, emoluments clause, Trump university, hush money, kids in cages, quanon, rape, Syria, tax evasion, steel dossier, Russia Russia Russia, in bed with Putin, witness intimidation, North Korea, impeachment vote, Comey, Flynn, Kushner, Zelensky, Corona virus, Saying not nice things about people, he refuses to bow to the fake propaganda machine media, he appoints the wrong kind of judges to courts...We're gonna get him this time, he hates black people, he sicks the military on them. He is just like Nixon. Oh boy Oh boy, we got him this time.
Props to you on keeping track of all that lol. I at one point was, then got tired of it XD.

Last edited by quickquestion111; 06-03-2020 at 11:25 PM.
 
Old 06-03-2020, 08:32 AM   #40
hazel
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I now regret starting this thread. I thought that the spectacle of Trump, the "tweeting president" having a fallout with social media had its funny side, but the whole thing seems to have turned into a flame war. Time perhaps to close it down.
 
Old 06-03-2020, 09:19 AM   #41
michaelk
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Quote:
But, black police officers kill more black men than white police officers do. Are those black cops anti black racists?
Apples and oranges comparison to the current situation.

The other side forgets that when Obama was elected they pledged to do everything in their power to block his agenda at all costs. Although the tactics have changed your whining because turnaround is not fair play?

I don't know that he says not nice things about people. To quote our President "there are very fine people on both sides."

I don't know who is doing most of the looting and burning. I say most are opportunists taking advantage of the situation and not part of the real protesters or any one "group"

The President has lied / exaggerated the truth somewhere around 18,000 times since taking office. If you have blind faith on everything he says then fine. If he tweets that everyone should take Clorox to prevent COVID would you? Should Twitter censor this? Do you realize that people actually tried this in various ways?
 
Old 06-03-2020, 09:25 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by hazel View Post
I now regret starting this thread. I thought that the spectacle of Trump, the "tweeting president" having a fallout with social media had its funny side, but the whole thing seems to have turned into a flame war. Time perhaps to close it down.
This is expectation when the conversation is about Trump.
 
Old 06-03-2020, 10:17 AM   #43
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I thought that the spectacle of Trump, the "tweeting president" having a fallout with social media had its funny side, but the whole thing seems to have turned into a flame war.
Yeah, I thought there might be some interesting perspectives shared on that - didn't expect the immature bickering to take over so soon. :/


Quote:
Time perhaps to close it down.
Or we can try and drag it back on-topic and focus on the Twitter side of things, and to what degree such platforms can be arbiters of what people can/can't post whilst simultaneously not taking responsibility for it.


If we ignore the author, politics, and specific message, but simply assume that a random user posted a message that unambiguously incited violence and violated Twitter's terms, would the actions Twitter took be the right reaction?

My understanding is that they didn't delete the post, they made it click-to-view - just like many forums have with movie/game spoilers - whereas a lot of forums will outright remove content which violates its terms.

Does anyone know to what degree Twitter is acting normally or giving special treatment?

Should] Twitter be treating public figures differently to everyone else, or exactly the same?

If they should, what are the bounds within which someone is considered a public figure - should it be whether they have a verified account, or based purely on follower count, or use some other measure?

 
Old 06-03-2020, 10:45 AM   #44
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Someone could win?

If you vote for people rather than policies you're part of the problem.
 
Old 06-03-2020, 11:32 AM   #45
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boughtonp View Post
My understanding is that they didn't delete the post, they made it click-to-view - just like many forums have with movie/game spoilers - whereas a lot of forums will outright remove content which violates its terms.
That was my understanding too. It hardly qualifies as censorship.
Quote:
Does anyone know to what degree Twitter is acting normally or giving special treatment?
I think this is normal practice.
Quote:
Should Twitter be treating public figures differently to everyone else?
No, because
Quote:
If they should, what are the bounds within which someone is considered a public figure - should it be whether they have a verified account, or based purely on follower count, or use some other measure?
That's a can of worms that no one wants to open!

The problem is the social media economic model. They are financed entirely by advertising, and advertisers love echo chambers. The more people see what they like, the longer they stay on the page and the more likely they are to click on the ads. If they see something that challenges them to think, they are more likely to scroll on. So the AI's that actually run these sites make sure that people see only opinions they agree with. And the companies use the "platform defence" to justify this.

At the same time, there is a limit to what the law will allow. Porn is obviously a no-no, and extreme trolling or encouragement to suicide is liable to make a site unpopular. So the companies have to dance around, being "just a platform" one moment and "responsible citizens" the next. I'm not surprised they get their knickers in a twist sometimes.
 
  


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