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Old 12-14-2018, 06:09 PM   #286
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
enorbet,

Regarding Socialism you are mistaken...the uber rich/elites have always loved Socialism/Fascism and Communism, it is the greatest vehicle for them to concentrate their power and riches. Then, after instituting one of the above three systems, they pass laws/dictates/mandates, preventing anyone from doing what they did (ie: gain wealth/power). That's why Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and the likes are always in favor of raising taxes, its not for them to pay more, its for the rest of us to pay more and have less, so "they" can have more. The endgame for those systems is always to get as close to 100% taxation as possible, oh yes, the humanitarian causes/freebies/environment etc... is always a precursor/fundraiser/pat on the back incentive, however, the benefits are either short lived or never materialize. What does materialize is you losing more money and the government/rulers getting more of it.

Ref: the ultimate ponzi schemes of 401K, social security, medicare etc... Talk about a pyramid scheme. geesh. I am sure that some of these scientists are sincere, however, the systems behind them (political/educational/philosophical) are indeed full of crooks, bandits, robber barons, tyrants, you name it....
How can you expect me, or anyone not already so disposed, to take your opinions and conclusions seriously when you insist on wrapping up Socialism, Fascism and Communism in the same blanket? It is the basis that serves Straw Man Argument, not logic and reality.

There is a distinct difference and the main thrust of that difference is who owns and/or controls the means of production? Please do explain how it benefits corporations or any corporation to relinquish control since what those three do have in common is that someone other than the CEO or Board or stockholders owns and controls corporations, usually including someone in government, a historically fickle institution. It is far easier and more compelling for corporations to be in ownership and in control not only of their own policies but of governments. Historically that doesn't happen under those three or is unreliable at best.

Please do consider that numerous corporations in existence and for a time thriving with governmental support in both Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and even as recently as Communist Soviet Union, no longer even exist while most corporations in the US and UK that flourished during WWII still exist and many are bigger and wealthier than ever before, AND many being controlled by the same descendant families. If you think this has gone unnoticed by Industrialists and financiers, you really do have another think coming.

Entirely separate is if you consider 401k, social security, and medicare to be actual ponzi schemes, what do you call insurance companies?
 
Old 12-14-2018, 07:27 PM   #287
rokytnji
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My latest contrib to this thread

https://www.wired.com/story/antarcti...reaking-point/

Looks like I have used up 1/2 of my free reading on that site.
 
Old 12-14-2018, 07:41 PM   #288
KenJackson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
..., even though someone might consider his fake news as akin to yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, a form of Free Speech not protected by law.
Whoa. I should think everyone in the global warming crowd would want to be cautious with that one. This guy isn't the one yelling "Fire!" He seems to be calmly saying there is no fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
He fails to understand that through increased numbers of drilled ice cores, partly because of the initial milder concern, and more accurate means of collecting and comparing such data that the data was indeed revised some but nowhere near to the extreme that Tony reports.
... but simply revised to give a clear picture of the DEGREE they already know was occurring from past data.
That video was primarily about the historical recorded temperature data. He claims there was very little good data being collected outside the United States or Europe until fairly recently. "The data was much too sparse in 1900 to make a meaningful assessment of the global temperature." Even in 1940 whole swaths of the globe had no stations recording daily temperature. He claims statements are being made today based on data that just doesn't exist. (Missing data can't be adjusted.)

He also shows a bunch newspaper clippings that talk about the cooling trend and global cooling. I remember some hysteria in the 70's about global cooling.

This guy doesn't sound alarmist at all. He didn't talk about when "people start dying en masse."
 
Old 12-14-2018, 08:59 PM   #289
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There is a cause that global warming alarmists and realists alike should be able to agree on and work together on to mutually achieve our respective objectives.

Realists want cheap abundant reliable power. The cheaper, more abundant and more reliable, the better.

Alarmists want to replace coal plants with "renewable energy," i.e. solar, wind, geothermal, hydro and biomass, and to get people to drive electric cars.

But there are well known problems with those sources. Solar and wind require good locations and are inconsistent so they require large storage devices, and are susceptible to storm damage. Geothermal and hydro require very limited specific locations. Biomass pollutes (and produces CO2) just like coal.

Thorium molten salt reactors don't pollute and don't emit CO2. The amount of thorium fuel in the world is so abundant it can be considered inexhaustible. They produce much less nuclear waste than uranium reactors, and can even burn some existing nuclear waste.

There's another big benefit for alarmists. One problem that limits wind power is the lack of available neodymium, which is needed for permanent magnets in their generators. But neodymium is produced as a byproduct of fission. The proposed designs of thorium reactors use liquid fuel and will remove fission byproducts continuously during operation. (They also plan to harvest bismuth-213, which is very valuable for efficiently killing cancer.)

And of course, cheap abundant reliable electric power can't help but make rechargeable electric cars more attractive to more people.

Anyone who believes CO2 is a problem should forget about advocating mandates for solar and wind power and electric cars and instead should focus full time on getting the government out of the way so thorium molten salt reactors can come on line sooner. They're more efficient, so power companies will want to replace their coal and oil burners with them for greater profits if regulatory harassment can be minimized.

Forget about sounding the alarm. If you're serious about wanting to cut CO2 emissions, educate the public on the benefits of thorium. There's lots of info available.
 
Old 12-14-2018, 09:03 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
How can you expect me, or anyone not already so disposed, to take your opinions and conclusions seriously when you insist on wrapping up Socialism, Fascism and Communism in the same blanket? It is the basis that serves Straw Man Argument, not logic and reality.

There is a distinct difference and the main thrust of that difference is who owns and/or controls the means of production? Please do explain how it benefits corporations or any corporation to relinquish control since what those three do have in common is that someone other than the CEO or Board or stockholders owns and controls corporations, usually including someone in government, a historically fickle institution. It is far easier and more compelling for corporations to be in ownership and in control not only of their own policies but of governments. Historically that doesn't happen under those three or is unreliable at best.

Please do consider that numerous corporations in existence and for a time thriving with governmental support in both Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and even as recently as Communist Soviet Union, no longer even exist while most corporations in the US and UK that flourished during WWII still exist and many are bigger and wealthier than ever before, AND many being controlled by the same descendant families. If you think this has gone unnoticed by Industrialists and financiers, you really do have another think coming.

Entirely separate is if you consider 401k, social security, and medicare to be actual ponzi schemes, what do you call insurance companies?
The lines drawn between Socialism, Fascism and Communism are grey lines at best, and only serve to fool the unobservant populace. The results are the same, tyranny with power concentrated in the hands of a few uber rich men and women, the endgame is the same...Fascism and Communism are both fast tracks to Socialism, at a cursory glance they appear opposed to each other, however, they are no different in their endgame, and in the end all three resemble each other. Similar to the false narrative of Liberals and Conservatives (Democrats and Republicans), if both parties consist of "Progressives" then we do not have a two party system, we have a one party system with two sets of clothes/robes.

The USA likes to say that Theocracies are bad yet they support England, the Dalai Lama (both are theocratic governments). USA claims to be a Capitalist country yet has a Marxist tax code, and has had such for 100 years, and has Socialist "security" policies, but also has elements of Fascism as well. Other countries do the same. You see?

Yes, for the most part insurance companies are a scheme as well, ever wonder why its so easy to pay in, yet so hard to collect, all the fine print. Yes, we will protect you and insure you, unless the incident occurs on a day of the week ending with a Y and between the hours of 0:00-23:59.9. Oh and there cannot be any inclement weather because acts of God are not covered, nor are riots, warfare, etc....
Slight exaggeration, or not, but you get the point.

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 12-14-2018 at 09:07 PM.
 
Old 12-14-2018, 09:05 PM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJackson View Post

Thorium molten salt reactors don't pollute and don't emit CO2. The amount of thorium fuel in the world is so abundant it can be considered inexhaustible. They produce much less nuclear waste than uranium reactors, and can even burn some existing nuclear waste.
I posted a video somewhere in this thread about that.

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 12-14-2018 at 09:11 PM.
 
Old 12-14-2018, 09:24 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
I posted a video somewhere in this thread about that.
Thorium offers a real chance of achieving their stated objective. So the fact that the alarmists aren't jumping up and down about them and pushing them to the hilt suggests something about their motives.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 09:22 AM   #293
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenJackson View Post
I know anyone can post anything on YouTube, but this video presents a compelling case that the government's temperature data has been altered to make the case for global warming. If it's right, then GW truly is a hoax. Is there a rebuttal?
Excellent compelling video. notes are here: https://realclimatescience.com/2018/...imate-science/
Assuming the linked notes correspond to the video (which I didn't watch) some rebuttals:

https://climatecenter.fsu.edu/does-n...l-climate-data
https://www.skepticalscience.com/und...temp-data.html
https://www.carbonbrief.org/explaine...rature-records
 
Old 12-15-2018, 10:27 AM   #294
rokytnji
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Usually. Snopes.com informs me who is spouting horse pucky because they have a agenda also.

Everyone has a agenda.
It is called preferences/druthers.

Snake oil does not sell well in the desert.
Must be all the snakes.

I wonder how well the thorium argument will play in front a japanese crowd?

Algea is pretty good energy source.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/videos/e...101-algae-fuel
 
Old 12-15-2018, 02:34 PM   #295
enorbet
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ChuangTzu I just woke up and have yet to have my coffee but one thing I'd like to note is ... Saying that the lines between Fascism, Communism and Socialism are grey at best is like saying the lines between all vegetation are grey. Sure they have commonality but they are also distinctly different and some will kill a man. The argument is Straw Man, over-simplification and merely a convenient lumping like Us and Them. One rather important misdirect is imagining that Communism and Fascism are just "towns" on the road to the "City", Socialism. Historically that is putting the cart before the horse.

Socialism, in it's pure form, is an easy sell to The Masses because Hey! Doesn't everybody want an equal share?. It takes awhile for the utter absurdity of that notion to start to hemorrhage money and for the rich/powerful/predatory to take over and "run things". How they run it can take several forms and while it certainly can be argued that nobody cares if there is a philosophical difference between the Gestapo and the KGB when they are pounding on your door but that is after the fact. How those institutions rise to power IS different and it is important to recognize the difference or we are powerless to be effective in thwarting such slow coup d'etat... let alone discuss who is what and identify risky legislation. It's just sloppy logic and needs to be avoided.

Last edited by enorbet; 12-16-2018 at 01:17 AM.
 
Old 12-15-2018, 04:08 PM   #296
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Arrow

Opinionists (humans) want to lump things together under "definitions" whatever those are... some bats shat in my garden last night, can't wait for the turnips.

Having kids is not the answer (even biologically) educating them is. Sometime before my nephew was two my parents installed child-proof locks on the cabinets. He crawled up to the newfangled contraptions and played with them a little before I walked over and showed them how they work,,, to my mother's dismay. "What mom, I could clearly see he wanted to know how they work!" Then I put anything of real danger up high until we evolved further‽

Last edited by jamison20000e; 12-15-2018 at 04:09 PM.
 
Old 12-16-2018, 09:04 PM   #297
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Interesting discovery: https://gizmodo.com/two-stalagmites-...ail-1831074289
 
Old 12-17-2018, 04:49 AM   #298
enorbet
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Thank you ChuangTzu, that is good news and not only for radiocarbon dating. Now the "hash marks" can be more finely tuned. It's like having a ruler with 1/32 inch hash instead of 1/8 hash and there's more.

To go further back different isotopes must be used but because the co-relation between all forms is exceedingly important to establish a gradient for accuracy, getting one improved affects the others. It's important that where they overlap, they also agree. This find in China will no doubt help in other isotope dating as well as radiocarbon. We have ice cores from Antarctica that date back to 1,500,000 years ago and though radiocarbon gets progressively inaccurate back that far, the grading of overlap will improve accuracy of other forms of dating. This is particularly important in the area of Climate since the bigger picture we have, the greater can be our understanding of these processes, how change occurs and carbon's role in it.

It will be interesting to see if this has any further reaching effects on other means of determining climate even further back Currently we use rock sediment and the presence of some lifeforms fossils since we have pretty accurate scales of the ranges in which these plants, animals and bacteria can survive. Calcium carbonate is of major value when we are going back billions of years. I doubt this new finding will affect that deep scale much but it is very important in the range of time that humans have existed in any form.

Thanks again. Cool article, great find.

Last edited by enorbet; 12-17-2018 at 04:52 AM.
 
Old 12-17-2018, 05:38 AM   #299
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To go off-topic for a moment, I wonder if this will help archaeologists studying the Mediterranean bronze age. It is pretty notorious that the "adjusted" radiocarbon dates obtained from the dendrochronology of American bristlecone pines give ridiculous results. You would have to insert whole dynasties of unknown Egyptian pharaohs to get the figures to match.

Maybe the stalagmite figures will be better.
 
Old 12-17-2018, 05:20 PM   #300
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Solar Cycle Linked To Global Climate
Quote:
Establishing a key link between the solar cycle and global climate, new research shows that maximum solar activity and its aftermath have impacts on Earth that resemble La Niña and El Niño events in the tropical Pacific Ocean.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0716113358.htm

Do Variations in the Solar Cycle Affect Our Climate System?
https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/rind_03/

Role Of Solar Radiation In Climate Change
https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0719195200.htm

Tiny Solar Activity Changes Affect Earth's Climate
https://www.space.com/19280-solar-ac...h-climate.html

Last edited by ChuangTzu; 12-17-2018 at 05:22 PM.
 
  


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