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Old 06-03-2018, 06:39 PM   #1
des_a
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Hopefully, Simple ISP Law Question


I'm not asking what a judge would specifically rule, but as far as Washington, US, or US Federal Law, what has the trend been, if it has come up at all.

I just want to know, if you are honest about what you are trying to do, to the best you are able to communicate it, every step of the way, and you happen to know enough tech stuff, that aside from some techs other places, nobody in tech support anywhere knows what you are talking about; but you don't know much legalese, but you know that aside from ISP rules, your general purpose is legal, what would happen?

What would happen if you were trying to stay within terms of service or request specific modifications if your intent is what the same intent that they are trying to sell you for. But you don't know if certain things would stay within terms of service, and nobody at the company knows the technology you are trying to use? You are also limited in ISPs in the area.

If you stay within all other applicable laws, and you don't try purposely to break their network, at this point, you know some basic things which would break it. Then, would you get in trouble, or would they come after you at all? If they did, come after you, would you most likely be found in the right, for doing everything you could? Would that even fall under the kind of stuff you could get pro bono lawyers for if you needed to? Don't really know too much about courts either. Just simply enough to do basics.

Thanks.
 
Old 06-03-2018, 07:10 PM   #2
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by des_a View Post
I'm not asking what a judge would specifically rule, but as far as Washington, US, or US Federal Law, what has the trend been, if it has come up at all.

I just want to know, if you are honest about what you are trying to do, to the best you are able to communicate it, every step of the way, and you happen to know enough tech stuff, that aside from some techs other places, nobody in tech support anywhere knows what you are talking about; but you don't know much legalese, but you know that aside from ISP rules, your general purpose is legal, what would happen?

What would happen if you were trying to stay within terms of service or request specific modifications if your intent is what the same intent that they are trying to sell you for. But you don't know if certain things would stay within terms of service, and nobody at the company knows the technology you are trying to use? You are also limited in ISPs in the area.

If you stay within all other applicable laws, and you don't try purposely to break their network, at this point, you know some basic things which would break it. Then, would you get in trouble, or would they come after you at all? If they did, come after you, would you most likely be found in the right, for doing everything you could? Would that even fall under the kind of stuff you could get pro bono lawyers for if you needed to? Don't really know too much about courts either. Just simply enough to do basics.
Honestly, you need to ask a lawyer; that's their job. You don't provide really ANY details about what this is about, aside from an ISP and terms of service. Don't say what you're doing/trying/etc.

Your choice (or lack thereof) of ISP's is of no importance. Whether they know the stuff you're using is of no importance. If you damage/interrupt their network, it is YOU that has done it, and they will know. What they do after that is up to them, and they not only have deep pockets but LOTS of lawyers. What you INTEND is of no importance, only that you agree to the terms of service to the account you signed up for. Print that out, take it to your lawyer, and pay them to interpret it.
 
Old 06-03-2018, 09:21 PM   #3
frankbell
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I second WHAT TB0ne said. My ISP forbids public-facing servers for less than business level accounts (they also block incoming port 80 for home users).

If I set up a public-facing server--say, a mail server or a web server--I can't claim later that I didn't intend to do it. That's not something that could happen by accident; it would be clearly wilful, and no amount of quick talking could change that.
 
Old 06-03-2018, 09:51 PM   #4
smallpond
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If what you are doing is legal (not just "general purpose is legal", whatever that means) but against the ISP's TOS, then all they can do is cancel your service. No judge is likely to be involved. Be aware of the CFAA; it's pretty strictly enforced.
 
Old 06-04-2018, 11:12 AM   #5
Habitual
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Their network, their rules.
 
Old 06-05-2018, 11:09 PM   #6
scasey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitual View Post
Their network, their rules.
Agreed. I run a web hosting company. I have the same attitude: My server, my rules.
If you want a public-facing website pay someone (godaddy/Amazon/me) to host it for you. Only use your ISP to access/maintain it.
 
Old 06-06-2018, 12:36 PM   #7
Habitual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scasey View Post
Agreed. I run a web hosting company. I have the same attitude: My server, my rules.
If you want a public-facing website pay someone (godaddy/Amazon/me) to host it for you. Only use your ISP to access/maintain it.
droplets are cheap. and disposable.

We may never run out of Work!
 
Old 06-06-2018, 07:08 PM   #8
des_a
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Thanks for answering.
 
Old 06-07-2018, 12:20 PM   #9
des_a
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Currently, the financial restrictions are why I don't pay somebody else to host my site(s). Not that they're fully there right now. I'm making changes.

I was never trying to do something an ISP wouldn't want me to do, just in case either though. However, it had come to my attention, that what they told me was okay, it looked different in the terms of service. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about my intentions or they weren't clear enough about directions.

I am finding that all companies tend to do this a little, who are around me. However, the ability to access them has just been figured out by me, without having them show it to me.

Anyway, now that I know how to access them, I will use that ability too. I guess I'll first look in the terms of service, then I will try to give them bits of the design of the network (everything they need to get a summary, nothing more, nothing less).

The problem before, was that it was indeed, as I had mentioned, still being built to the point where it was ready for full use. While my recent ideas have changed the design, it hasn't changed the fact that the core is basically completely ready.

By the way, mark as solved malfunctioning again in this thread. You answered, unless any more input changes that. Thanks again. I suggest that this one gets stickied. It might be a common or important question. Perhaps put in a section about general software/hardware/comptuer legal questions with disclaimer that it's not actual legal advice. Add a thread that also mentions differences between free software and other types. Just a suggestion.

Might do that on my forum anyway, to some degree. http://smileynetmain.createaforum.com. Not hosted on my system. Attempt is non-competing with other forums in most ways. Want to get more members and make it it's own community. Free and self-sign-up.
 
Old 06-07-2018, 12:42 PM   #10
Habitual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by des_a View Post
By the way, mark as solved malfunctioning again in this thread.
Thread Tools top-right of opening post. > "Solved"...
 
Old 06-07-2018, 02:28 PM   #11
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by des_a View Post
However, it had come to my attention, that what they told me was okay, it looked different in the terms of service. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough about my intentions or they weren't clear enough about directions.

I am finding that all companies tend to do this a little, who are around me.
i totally agree.
however, inerpreting salesman talk is one of those everyday skills one has to pick up along the way, otherwise neverending disappointment and suffering.
thankfully, it's not too hard to learn because these people tend to be extremely narrow-minded.
 
Old 06-07-2018, 10:18 PM   #12
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by des_a View Post
I suggest that this one gets stickied. It might be a common or important question.
Hmm, I'm still puzzled as to what the question actually is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitual View Post
Thread Tools top-right of opening post. > "Solved"...
Doesn't work in General.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 12:01 PM   #13
des_a
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Thread Tools top-right of opening post. > "Solved"..

I know how to do it. It's been my experience, that occasionally, it malfunctions. Usually it says mark as solved. As it is, I just checked, and it says neither one. Usually there is also a link to click, but when not, as there sometimes isn't, then usually there will be some equivalent which I have thourally checked for under the thread tools, just as you say. It's simply not there. Most of the time, it's there, but it's been my experience since at least 1 year ago, that sometimes, and I never know when, it's not there.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 12:26 PM   #14
des_a
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Hmm, I'm still puzzled as to what the question actually is...

Posts #3, #4, and #5 answered it best. The first post must've been enough for an answer, or whatever it took before that.


The answer isn't exactly what I wanted to hear, but I'm grateful I got it. Post #2 also came close. To know for sure, do what it says. However, I was looking for a best guess based off of what others knew, if they knew more than me. They did, so I got the answer.


I will find a way to move forward, within my budget (possible budgets) and skills and the job of the network. Nobody had told me I couldn't do it when I talked to them. However, I'm not sure I explained what I was doing to them well enough. That's both my fault, and not my fault. It's my fault for not explaining it well, but it's not my fault for not yet understanding how to explain it well.

I simply need to start by redesigning the network, rather than quitting cold turkey or anything. That's what I was working on. I just wanted to see if I might get in trouble depending on what I was doing.


It was not what I wanted to hear that I probably need to do better at understanding things, but it's the answer. I guess, in my specific case, since it's not the actual laws, even if they took it to court for some reason, they'd probably say, based off of circumstances that I just needed to cancel my account. Which I did in order to do better, not them. They'd probably have to have not an arrest warrant, but some kind of warrant or permission otherwise from me or someone to enter my house and do investigations to find out what I was doing. Because I really tried to tell them exactly what I was doing and why, but I was unable to. I was unable to tell them what the requirements were, until I figured them out for myself and got them to work.

That might not change much. But I have begun to look at it as two separate networks, regardless of where it is. That's allowing me to move forward and better explain things. How it must be built probably won't change much unless technology changes again. There are slightly better tools out there, but they are out of my budget. Namely, either really expensive desktop pcs, or anstles would be better and more reliable.

The first "goal" is the get things ready and meet the main goal of having the network in the first place. The second goal is to find ways to share it with other people, while not effecting my use. When I am seeing my main purpose better explained on paper (the backend), it is screaming at me, for ways to share it, "non-profit!". That's all for now.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 03:05 PM   #15
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by des_a View Post
I suggest that this one gets stickied.
wtf? i don't even live in america...
 
  


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