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Old 06-14-2013, 12:05 AM   #1
jtwdyp
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Is there a SIMPLE howto for basic systemd tweaking such as changing targets?


I've got a new Sabayon install and systemd is driving me nutz. I don't want
to master it's operation. But I need to know how to do a couple of things
that I can't quite get from the man pages.

First, I boot to console, and then use startx if and when I'm ready for the
gui. I always used to be able to do that simply by including the nox
kernel option in my grub menu. But with this new system I had to remove the
display manager completely to get a seemingly clean console boot... Though
just before it puts login prompts on the tty(s) it says the graphical
target has been reached... It's been suggested that I change the default
target to from graphical.target to multi-user.target...

But they want me to read the documentation to see how. But it's like having
to study a manual on how to assemble a custom built car from scratch in
order to find out where the windshield wiper controls are and which
reservoir gets windshield washer fluid rather than brake fluid...

I'd like to know how to change that target. And if there is a setting
that's messing with my ability to use rc-update to get the gpm service
running I could use that too.

And finally in case they stop letting me use the udev rule that some nice
programmer helped me to compose a few years ago to let my non-root user
actually own my data partitions so that I don't have to use root tools for ONLY
my user { and of course root } to be able to mount and unmount them at
will, I could use a clue how to do that with systemd methods.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 04:44 AM   #2
cyberpatrol
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The best you can do is to get rid of this Poetterix crap. I've tested it on Arch Linux and uninstalled it at once. When they forced it onto everybody and made that the default and the only available init system, I switched to Salix OS. And now I'm back to Gentoo, but for other reasons, Salix OS still doesn't use Poetterix.

And I will try eudev soon to completely get rid of Poetterix.

See the very long discussions on arch-general and other mailing lists. If I recall correctly it was discussed here, too.

Btw., a small hint for Gentoo:
echo 'INSTALL_MASK="/usr/lib/systemd"' >> /etc/portage/make.conf

Last edited by cyberpatrol; 06-14-2013 at 04:51 AM.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 09:56 AM   #3
jtwdyp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberpatrol View Post
The best you can do is to get rid of this Poetterix crap. I've tested it on Arch Linux and uninstalled it at once. When they forced it onto everybody and made that the default and the only available init system, I switched to Salix OS.
What is "Poetterix"? Is it perhaps the name of some organization promoting/developing systemd???

If you mean flush systemd then after looking at the man documents, I'm inclined to agree that it {expletive deleted} stinks. And if I only ran one or even just two distros, I might get good enough with one of them to fight the devs hard enough to never get stuck with systemd. But I run several. And all of them seem to be thinking of dumping systemV in favor of systemd. And for the most part I don't care {I don't care whether the machanics want a carburator or an injection system under the hood of my car either. Just as long as they don't make me take a college course just to find out how read the user manual well enough to do a basic tuneup...}

Since you tested this crap, perhaps you could explain in simple language how one changes the default target to multi-user.target???

{how? & where?) Thanks in advance...
 
Old 06-14-2013, 11:08 AM   #4
TobiSGD
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Setting the target in systemd works with symlinks. This should do the job:
Code:
rm /etc/systemd/system/default.target
ln -sf /lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target /etc/systemd/system/default.target
Note that these paths are from an openSuse machine, it may be that the paths are a little bit different on your machine.

Last edited by TobiSGD; 06-14-2013 at 11:09 AM.
 
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:32 PM   #5
cyberpatrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtwdyp View Post
What is "Poetterix"?
Lennart Poettering is the so called developer, who invented pulseaudio and systemd and who is still the main developer of both. Neither pulseaudio is working, particularly with (semi-)professional audio cards, nor is systemd working.

That's why his crap is also called Poetterix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtwdyp View Post
Since you tested this crap, perhaps you could explain in simple language how one changes the default target to multi-user.target???
No, I can't. I really don't know what's going on in his head, and I really didn't understand his so called documentation. Well, I understood his insults against his and his software's critics in his documentation.

And if I meanwhile need to set a symlink to /dev/null in /etc/udev/rules.d to deactivate a udev rule and to not always having it reactivated, then it's just hopeless. And if I see such directory trees like /usr/lib/system/systemd/systemd/service/... then there's no hope, too.

I really don't understand why all those distributors switch to this systemd crap. Well, I understand that Fedora resp. Redhat is doing it, because Lennart Poettering is on their payroll. But on the other hand I don't understand how one can hire such an - I'd better don't say that.

But regarding the target issue, try it with some symlinking in some of those above mentioned directories. Lennart Poettering seems to only know symlinks, but no configuration files, they totally don't exist in systemd.
 
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:47 PM   #6
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberpatrol View Post
Lennart Poettering is the so called developer, who invented pulseaudio and systemd and who is still the main developer of both.
Mr. Poettering is not the developer of PulseAudio anymore, he stepped back with the release of PulseAudio 1.0.

Quote:
Neither pulseaudio is working, particularly with (semi-)professional audio cards
Don't know about professional audio-cards, but on my Slackware systems PulseAudio works just fine. Reminds that I have to test the recently released 4.0 of it.
Quote:
Lennart Poettering seems to only know symlinks, but no configuration files, they totally don't exist in systemd.
Since all services in systemd must have a configuration file this is simply wrong.

But anyways, please remember the LQ Rules:
Quote:
Do not post if you do not have anything constructive to say in the post.
With your rant in this technical thread you have taken this thread from the Zero Reply List without helping to find a solution for this problem. This lessened the visibility of this thread, making it less probable that a knowledgeable person will answer it.
 
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Old 06-14-2013, 03:06 PM   #7
cyberpatrol
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Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Mr. Poettering is not the developer of PulseAudio anymore, he stepped back with the release of PulseAudio 1.0.
But he is the inventor. And he left a not working piece of software and started another one that also doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Don't know about professional audio-cards, but on my Slackware systems PulseAudio works just fine. Reminds that I have to test the recently released 4.0 of it.
Then try pulseaudio with an ice1712 based audio card like the M-Audio Audiophile 24/96. And, btw., pulseaudio upstream blamed ALSA for the PA bug, while ALSA supports those cards perfectly out-of-the-box without the need of a configuration since years. And the systemd developers indeed blamed the kernel developers for systemd bugs. Just embarrassing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Since all services in systemd must have a configuration file this is simply wrong.
No, this is wrong. It's a totally bad behaviour if you need to set symlinks to /dev/null to deactivate a function permanently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
But anyways, please remember the LQ Rules:With your rant in this technical thread you have taken this thread from the Zero Reply List without helping to find a solution for this problem. This lessened the visibility of this thread, making it less probable that a knowledgeable person will answer it.
Wrong again. My answer was technically. The best and easiest way to fix this issue is to get rid of systemd, because systemd is technically crap. I could explain that in more detail, but you can search the web for systemd and read several mailing lists incl. arch-general.

But that's the typical reaction of those systemd fanboys. Not that I want to call you personally a fanboy. They always ask for technical reasons, and when giving them they say that those reasons are not technical, and if asked themselves to give technical reasons which speak for systemd they won't give any, but insult the critics. So that's the typical behaviour.

So, to fix systemd and pulseaudio issues, get rid of both. You won't get a real fix by upstream.

Last edited by cyberpatrol; 06-14-2013 at 03:07 PM.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 04:19 PM   #8
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberpatrol View Post
Wrong again. My answer was technically. The best and easiest way to fix this issue is to get rid of systemd, because systemd is technically crap. I could explain that in more detail, but you can search the web for systemd and read several mailing lists incl. arch-general.

But that's the typical reaction of those systemd fanboys. Not that I want to call you personally a fanboy. They always ask for technical reasons, and when giving them they say that those reasons are not technical, and if asked themselves to give technical reasons which speak for systemd they won't give any, but insult the critics. So that's the typical behaviour.

So, to fix systemd and pulseaudio issues, get rid of both. You won't get a real fix by upstream.
When someone asks about systemd the answer is not "Don't use it", in the same way that the answer is not "Use Debian" when someone asks a question about openSuse or "Use Firefox" if someone asks a question about Google Chrome. If you are a fan of that software or not is totally irrelevant to the question. So either you can help the OP with his question or you can't. You already stated that you can't, so the question remains why you answer to a thread where you can't help, removing that thread from the Zero Reply List without giving an answer to the question. This behavior is not appreciated on LQ.

Now let's get back to the topic, if you want to discuss this any further feel free to contact me via PM or mail.

Last edited by TobiSGD; 06-14-2013 at 04:20 PM.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 04:34 PM   #9
cyberpatrol
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Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
When someone asks about systemd the answer is not "Don't use it", in the same way that the answer is not "Use Debian" when someone asks a question about openSuse or "Use Firefox" if someone asks a question about Google Chrome. If you are a fan of that software or not is totally irrelevant to the question. So either you can help the OP with his question or you can't. You already stated that you can't, so the question remains why you answer to a thread where you can't help, removing that thread from the Zero Reply List without giving an answer to the question. This behavior is not appreciated on LQ.
You're comparing apples with oranges. Having a problem with Debian or Google is something completely different than having a problem with systemd or pulseaudio. If you file a bug report about Debian they look at it and most likely the bug gets fixed or a real solution is given.

If you have issues with pulseaudio the bug report is most likely closed as invalid or as fixed with a very dirty workaround which cripples down a professional audio card to a soundblaster like stereo card with some ominous ALSA config, and ALSA is blamed for this bug. The same for systemd and the kernel devs.

And systemd and pulseaudio is broken by design, which Debian is not. And the systemd and pulseaudio developers are just ignorant, arrogant and tend to insult their critics, even in the systemd documentation (my personal experiences). Debian devs aren't ignorant, arrogant and don't insult their critics (also my personal experiences). That are the important differences.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 04:56 PM   #10
TobiSGD
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What part of "Now let's get back to the topic, if you want to discuss this any further feel free to contact me via PM or mail." did you not understand?

Remember, the questions in this thread are clearly laid out in the first post, and none of them is "What is your opinion on systemd or Lennart Poettering?".
 
Old 06-14-2013, 05:26 PM   #11
cyberpatrol
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What part of "Now let's get back to the topic, if you want to discuss this any further feel free to contact me via PM or mail." did you not understand?

Remember, the questions in this thread are clearly laid out in the first post, and none of them is "What is your opinion on systemd or Lennart Poettering?".
I answered the question in the first post seriously. You interfered into it, and you started this discussion. You started it in the public. If I am asked something in the public, I answer in the public. Think about it.

You don't want to discuss this, don't do it.

And if I am asked about the reasons, why I suggest what I suggest, then I explain them. If you think this is my opinion on systemd or Lennart Poettering, it's your problem. What I've written is my experience. And once again, the techincally best and easiest solution to the original question is to get rid of systemd.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 05:46 PM   #12
unSpawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberpatrol View Post
Wrong again. My answer was technically. The best and easiest way to fix this issue is to get rid of systemd, because (..)
No. You're wrong.

The OPs basic question was "how can I?" to which a fellow LQ member replied correctly with how to symlink targets.

Your rant was off topic.
Please don't do that again.
Now keep this thread on topic.
End of discussion*.

*I am this forums moderator so thread carefully.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 06:06 PM   #13
cyberpatrol
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The OPs basic question was "how can I?"
And I answered exactly this question. "He can" by getting rid of systemd. What part of that didn't you understand? This was a serious answer and not a rant. If you don't like this answer, it's just your very own problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unSpawn View Post
*I am this forums moderator so thread carefully.
You want to threaten me? Not the best idea and really totally off-topic. Btw., the people who got off-topic here, and started to rant, are two so-called moderators. Read your own comment and Tobi's comments and think about it, and think good about it, and think very good about your attitude, particularly before you want to threaten and censor anyone.

Btw., this is exactly the typical behaviour of all of those systemd fanboys. Just typical. Think about that, too.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 06:13 PM   #14
unSpawn
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Final warning.
 
Old 06-14-2013, 06:28 PM   #15
cyberpatrol
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Final warning.
And what then? Do you want another report? Is that the only thing you can do, threatening other people? Or can you just stop this discussion?

Once again: It's ONLY YOU who makes this noise. Just don't ask me anything or provoke me, and you won't have any problem.

I'm repeating myself. It's just your very own problem, if you can't bear answers you don't like and different opinions and experiences.
 
  


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