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Old 12-22-2001, 03:18 PM   #16
Registered: May 2001
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honestly, i would start of by learning whatever the first class is at the school that you are going to. I go to texas a&m and they start out students in java. (the intro class is c if but its not part of the requrired curriculem). Java is good because its Object oreinted, which is harder to learn at first, but its worth the struggle. it also has a VERY good api to use, so you can do just about anything with it. C++ is good, it's prolly what you will do most programing in in the "real world". but it has a little sharper learning curve. C is also good but its not object oreinted, so you may have some trouble when you start off with OO design.

Pascal is a good basic language if you don't have any programing skills at all, but its pretty much worthless afterword.
Old 12-22-2001, 04:24 PM   #17
Registered: Oct 2001
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actually, that point about the API is really good. (wow, i'm not insulting anyone!) Once i'd got to grips with oop concepts everything bacame so standard, and rather than wanting example code etc.. to suss out each thing in java, such as swing, I always find it much quicker to just check the api. Once you know what to expect, API's speed everything up so fast. And there's no concrete C++ API afaik. Also from a beginners pov java is a hard and fast product. whoomph, there it is. which is so much nicer to start with than all the c libraries you might need. I've personally just found the GTKExtra libs, and they have no docs at all, just two example programs without any comments.... UGH... There are add ons to java, but you're not gonna need them till you'd really know what your'e doing anyway.
Old 12-30-2001, 02:26 PM   #18
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Eeek! VB

Not that you can't do plenty with VB on proprietary systems, but if you encourage your course director towards Pascal, and tell her that VB encourages sloppy coding <!swipe!>, you'll learn more about programming but be able to apply less *initially*.

Recommend she reads a book or three like -

Programming Language Choice, Mark Woodman (1996), Computing Department, Open University, Thomson Press. ISBN 1-85032-186-8

This tackles the exact question of what to teach university students and what not to teach. It doesn't cover Java but it covers everything else.

As a broad summary, if it has good supprt for abstract data types (ADT), then it's a candidate for teaching programming concepts.

p.s. mention ADT to a VB programmer and they turn funny colours and fall over .
Old 01-05-2002, 07:37 PM   #19
Registered: May 2001
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And there's no concrete C++ API afaik
thats sorta not true, there are some VERY good api out there. they just are not standardized over platforms. if you are programing in M$, the Micro foundation classes (MFC) are EXCELLENT, once you get the hang of them. much like java. but those only work with M$. there are some multi platform api. i have been doing some work with QT (here ), it has an extensive, well documented, easy to use, cross platform library. but it cost money for non-free application. if you are working in C++ i recommend you give it a try


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