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Old 10-03-2006, 01:21 AM   #61
crabboy
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I'm with Tink on this one. Java is an extreme memory hog, the simplest of programs chew up hundreds of megs of memory. Don't get me wrong, I program in Java just about every day because it's quick and there are lots of supporting libraries out there, but I think it's asinine at how much hardware the most basic programs need to run.

But here is my other gripe about Java.

I've seen far too many programmer wannabes cross my path knowing Java over C/C++. Java is easy to learn and just about any idiot can start typing and produce a screen with some data on it. When the complex project arrives is when you can detect the marketing major turned programmer because he took programming in Java 101 in college. About 4 out of every 5 C/C++ guys I've interviewed who claimed to know C/C++ know it well, that ratio is about 1 to 5 for the Java side. Agree with me or not, but it takes a special 'type' of person to be a programmer and C weeded out most that didn't fit. Java does not.
 
Old 10-03-2006, 06:31 AM   #62
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How did I miss this thread!!!!

Few years ago, in our centre, we had programmers who spent lot of time on IBM mainframes, COBOL etc and when new architectures evolved, refused to learn new stuff and found solace in finding problems in new stuff. Some choice statements were "Fortran is better than UNIX", " COBOL is better than Oracle" etc.

We were just about 30-35 yr olds, who jumped at the oppertunity to dump COBOL Fortran stuff, and we had done projects in C, C++ in college anyway. It simply polarized the environment in our centre!

Great thing is, a decade on, they still miss their old stuff! and they still dont like modern stuff!

This thread reminds me so much of that polarization.
 
Old 10-03-2006, 06:35 AM   #63
bigearsbilly
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java isn't new.
it's rehashed C++

which is OO botched up C
 
Old 10-03-2006, 07:05 AM   #64
ppanyam
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Oh by the way, I didnt know you could do SO MUCH on an IBM mainframe. Why are we wasting zillions on IBM P-series, Linux clusters, Sun Fires and SGI Onyx. Why isnt NASA doing all their stuff on IBM mainframes? Or have they stopped being so mission critical?
 
Old 10-03-2006, 05:47 PM   #65
Pauli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppanyam
Oh by the way, I didnt know you could do SO MUCH on an IBM mainframe. Why are we wasting zillions on IBM P-series, Linux clusters, Sun Fires and SGI Onyx. Why isnt NASA doing all their stuff on IBM mainframes? Or have they stopped being so mission critical?
NASA has the ability to change their systems without the risk of millions of dollars. Many corporations still run on 30 year old mainframes. Visa in my town of montreal is running on anchient mainframes, with a fresh new interface through a mini IIRC, but they're still using the old frames.
 
Old 10-04-2006, 12:19 AM   #66
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Sure, I agree with that. Why should anyone change hardware/software if it is nor economically viable? Same rule applies elsewhere, why should someone learn xyz language because it runs faster/portable/ or fancy.

Cheaper ardware runs for ur purpose.. That doesnt mean that all other platforms including UNIX running Oracle is not mission critical, as Mr Moderator had said. I have seen a radiologist who loads his digital CT scans into his laptop and visualizes the brain of the patient in 3D so that he can take more scans if needed. This is mission critical for him, and saves lives if a small clot is missed by the original CT. $ transactions are not mission critical BY ANY STANDARD. Also the "millions of transactions" he talks about are taking place in RDBMS. It has nothing to do with the frontend.
By the way we are in Oil industry, and we are talking about teraflops, and jobs run for several weeks. The software is written in C++, java, TCL/TK, Corba and I dont know what else. Any software worth its salt will have more than 1 language somewhere or other.

Also, we have written same code in java, c and perl and run it on sample data. 12 mins, 10 mins and 11 mins was the respective times.

Also ask any moderate C programmer without big maths backgroud to write a program to find if a given point is in a polygon or not.( It was required to find if the wells proposed were being targeted in areas under license for us or not.. Not for school home work). Some of our guys took 1 month to find proper algorithm on the net and some more time to implement it. In java, it was a 1 line function call. Thats why java is popular. It has something for all domain people.

I programmed in C, C++, java, perl, Oracle and what not, mostly for fun, though I am a System Admin. Everything has its place under the sun. Its silly grownups arguing like this in a public forum.

Its time someone deleted this thread.
 
Old 10-04-2006, 08:06 AM   #67
alred
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if its not for that word "exactly" in op's thread title , i would like to say that java can also be use for simple fun ... probably will end up with some little non-competing self-admirations and satisfactions ... it is nothing special actually ... a lot of things are included with the "stalk" installation , dont need to search for external "extensions" ...

but if with that word "exactly" included , guess that this thread is about "big iron talking" , very scary ... ^_^


.
 
Old 10-04-2006, 08:49 AM   #68
kalleanka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ppanyam
Sure, I agree with that. Why should anyone change hardware/software if it is nor economically viable? Same rule applies elsewhere, why should someone learn xyz language because it runs faster/portable/ or fancy.

Cheaper ardware runs for ur purpose.. That doesnt mean that all other platforms including UNIX running Oracle is not mission critical, as Mr Moderator had said. I have seen a radiologist who loads his digital CT scans into his laptop and visualizes the brain of the patient in 3D so that he can take more scans if needed. This is mission critical for him, and saves lives if a small clot is missed by the original CT. $ transactions are not mission critical BY ANY STANDARD. Also the "millions of transactions" he talks about are taking place in RDBMS. It has nothing to do with the frontend.
By the way we are in Oil industry, and we are talking about teraflops, and jobs run for several weeks. The software is written in C++, java, TCL/TK, Corba and I dont know what else. Any software worth its salt will have more than 1 language somewhere or other.
Thats my experiance aswell that big projects have several languages in it. In the end its just binaries and calculations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppanyam
Also, we have written same code in java, c and perl and run it on sample data. 12 mins, 10 mins and 11 mins was the respective times.
Intressting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppanyam
Also ask any moderate C programmer without big maths backgroud to write a program to find if a given point is in a polygon or not.( It was required to find if the wells proposed were being targeted in areas under license for us or not.. Not for school home work). Some of our guys took 1 month to find proper algorithm on the net and some more time to implement it. In java, it was a 1 line function call. Thats why java is popular. It has something for all domain people.
dont forget pointers....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppanyam
I programmed in C, C++, java, perl, Oracle and what not, mostly for fun, though I am a System Admin. Everything has its place under the sun. Its silly grownups arguing like this in a public forum.

Its time someone deleted this thread.
please do not. I like this thread.
 
Old 10-04-2006, 12:16 PM   #69
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalleanka
Code:
Originally Posted by ppanyam
  				  Also, we have written same code in java, c and perl and run it on sample data. 12 mins, 10 mins and 11 mins was the respective times.

Intressting.
It actually means very little not knowing the data or the algorithm
used.



Cheers,
Tink
 
  


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