university courses
 

Hello,

I always wanted to learn how to program mainly for creating dynamic Websites and Linux system administration and i might give desktop (GUI) apps a try when i am confident.

I searched a lot about how to learn about programming most threads in ubuntuforums talk about learning with python as a first language and i really like the language, but i really didn't want to learn a specific language i wanted to know about the whole process, so i decided to take one of these courses and i really don't know which is suitable for someone like me.

MIT 6.00 is an into to CS and they use python as the course's language but the assignments are really hard i can tell by looking at them :O

Stanford have an amazing series CS106A/B CS107 but the start with java and i heard that java is a complex language for a newbie.

Harvard's CS50 teach their first CS course in C and PHP and Javasciprt the course is really good and its the most up-to-date ( they renew the files every year) but its very intensive, time consuming one...


i really can't choose its a tough situation all of them are all good courses, please help me out here.

Thanks in advance.

I would take the Harvard's CS50, definitely.

Python is a good choice too, it's easy and it teaches you the concepts you will need for any language.

Java is useless, don't learn it if you can help it. But, you probably will learn it anyway, whether you want to or not.

Try to find a copy of 'programming in Modula-2' by Prof Wirth. This one is real cheap: <http://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listin...condition=used

Modula-2 is very structured and easy to learn. If you're a good programmer in Modula-2, you can become a good C or Python programmer too. The reverse is not certain... C is a portable assembler. Not an easy choice to start out with.

The book I mention is more an introduction to Modula-2, but it contains theory and examples.

Later, check the sources at
http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/mocka/index.html
http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/modula-2/index.html
http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/Java/index.html
http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/asm/index.html
http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/m4m/index.html

And http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/Prog/index.html of course.

Free books about programming:
http://www-old.oberon.ethz.ch/WirthPubl/CBEAll.pdf
http://www-old.oberon.ethz.ch/WirthP...ogInOberon.pdf
http://members.home.nl/jmr272/Oberon/AD.pdf
http://www-old.oberon.ethz.ch/WirthP...InOberonWR.pdf
http://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/mike/obc/
http://members.home.nl/jmr272/Oberon/Oberon2.Report.pdf
http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/obe...port-1992.html

@H_TeXMeX_H

Thanks for the response, CS50 is great and i was going for it if no one answered me.

@fruttenboel

by looking at this http://www.modula2.org/tutor/chapter3.php Modula-2 is very similar to C like languages but i don't see the point why learn it, if i have access to a full Harvard course (a VM with a pre-configured GCC + psets + handout + video lectures).

plus, i would like to take the chance and report that all the mocka complier links you got on your website are ( Forbidden/dead ).

anyway, i really appreciate your reply and thank you.

EDIT: i found out that the GNU guys are have a compiler but its "still in development"...
http://www.nongnu.org/gm2/

...for dynamic websites, you probably want things like PHP, javascript (no relation), maybe python and java...but maybe you'd be better off learning a CMS rather than a language, per se. Oh, and obviously HTML and CSS. And, if you decide to go down the CMS route, that might push whatever is used in your CMS of choice up the list of priorities.

...bash (or other shell), python, perl...ruby?

...c++, python, perl, c and, of course, some graphics toolkit

Python is a good choice for a first language, as you can actually achieve stuff without getting too involved with nitty, gritty details and still learn. OTOH, Python isn't the best solution for everything, but nothing is.

My objection to Java isn't the language itself, these days. You see far too many examples of brain-dead programming in Java and it is apparent that you can learn Java without learning basic principles. I'm sure that you can do this in any language if you try, but Java programmers seem to be more susceptible to it.

I'm sure that it is possible to write decent programs in Java, it is just a shame that this option isn't more frequently exercised.

To achieve your aims, you will end up learning more than one of the above. I think that you'll just have to get used to this idea.

It's the strangest statement about programming languages similarity I've ever heard. Modula-2 is a good language, and it's "light years" away from "C".

@salasi

hello salasi, first of all thanks for your detailed reply.

on the CMS issue i really want to program websites and understand the front and back end processes if i am not wrong a cms like Drupal is point and click and make things easier and i am not looking for that...

yes, i am aware of that CS50 will be just a first step, then i will take CS106B (C++ abstraction) then CS107.

i know there is no magical way to know everything in a short time... these courses will just be an eye opener to me.

@Sergei Steshenko

Sorry i am a newbie trying to learn :)

Your timing is perfect! Just came across this, this morning: Free Software University

there is also the Stanford free ones
http://see.stanford.edu/SEE/Courses.aspx
http://see.stanford.edu/see/about.aspx

that's because it's what they teach at universities. universities churn out programmers.
most of whom will be doing it to get into 'I.T.', will have plagiarised most of their coursework,
will never have the knack, taught by lecturers who rarely read, let alone test
coursework code.
Then they leave college and start as a developer, as that's the first step to
get into project management.

cynical, moi? ;)

You're right, that's a good point. Of course, there's plenty more to criticize about it.

Here's my summary of the problem with java:
Programmers lose out, not only because they do not learn how to program by using java, but also because java as a language is not gonna help you get anywhere or get a job. Most companies ask if you know C/C++ or for web programming PHP, Perl, Javascript. Where does java fit in ? It doesn't, it's a fat, ugly, evil, bastard child that should never have been conceived, but it's too late, his daddy is a big wig and will make sure he gets noticed. The whole industry looses out, because you have these programmers fresh out of school, and they can't program worth a ****, nor make a useful program that people will use. I swear, every time I've downloaded a java program doing anything, hoping that it will work and will work well, I end up deleting it in less than 5 min. It's that bad. But, they keep pushing it, into every school, onto every programmer, everywhere. Well go ahead, but when everything goes to hell, know the cause.

okay i will walk the C/C++ path for desktop apps and network programming.

php/perl, javascript, (x)HTML/CSS (markup) for web dev.

bash/python/perl for sys admin.

lisp/scheme is a plus for the programmer right??

and of course i am not going to touch java unless i really have to..

Thanks for the responds everyone, i will mark this as SOLVED but please feel free to add more :)

And their more modern soul friends OCaml and Haskell.

Suppose you want to become pilot of a space shuttle. Of course you can start out as a 4 year old studying the controls. Still,many people at age 4 will learn to ride a bicycle. At 18 they will learn motorvehicles. Later perhaps a plane. And then a rocket.
Why should you not start ouit with a language that teaches you the LOGIC and Contrl structures of a programming language? Many european universities teach Modula-2 in first year and then later (when the students know what programming is) give the opportunity to switch to a more dangerous language.

All of them? In that case your government is protecting you against yourself by blocking content. Some of the links listed in the Oberon section are dead (oberon2005.ru seems gone, just like some pages formerly hosted in the private webspace of Prof Wirth). I just checked the majority of links and they all run.

The Gnu M2 project sucks. You need one specific backdated version of gcc to get M2 working. The compiler is slower than BASIC on a Z80 machine. It's complete and utter crap. It's a shame to the name.

Wise. By the way, IIRC, Modula-2 System module is dangerous - intentionally and by design - which makes Modula-2 a universal language, i.e. one can also program hardware in it.

And beginners are simply forbidden to use the module.

Free University Berlin has rearranged their website again. Silly germans.

Here is the http://lwb.mi.fu-berlin.de/inf/mocka/installation.shtml link to the page where and how to install mocka. Since this page is in german I guess you cannot read it. So here is the link to the compiler: ftp://ftp.mi.fu-berlin.de/lwb/pakete/mocka.tgz

Get it, then follow the instructions in http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/mocka/setup.html

Modula-2 is OOP-ing without constantly having to say 'oops!' :D

Full windowing operating systems were written with Modula-2 when MicroSchoft was still stomping out DOS 4 textmode programs.

you won't even need SYSTEM for that. If, on a DOS style machine, you define a byte as a bitset you can manipulate individual bits in memory. Fast screen writes were usually done by having a big array at the address of the VGA screen buffer.

On Linux systems, the SYSTEM module is not dangerous at all. You will need root privileges for special things.

In general, Modula-2 is safe because it

won't let you do pointer arithmetic
won't allow math with different TYPE's
is VERY picky about procedures that return something
has no (real) goto / label construct
has definite END clauses for each IF
wants to be a MINIMAL system, whereas C, Java, C++ etc strive to be complete
implements code hiding and reuse
allows overloading in a SAFE way
does not require complex MAKE files

among many other things. Furthermoe, the compiler is there to help you, not to fight you.

A warning from my side:

IF youKnowModula2 = TRUE THEN
LearningJava := Troublesome ()
ELSE
LearningJava := Problematic ()
END

Java is more TYPEsafe than the other C-ish languages. But it suffers from the same amount of onamentation. Zillions of libraries just to be compelte for all persons in all places on all planets.

For GUI-ish programs I try to make a mix of Tcl/Tk front ends, which float on top of Modula-2 compiled executables.

OMG!!
 

@Sergei Steshenko

ops, i forgot to mention haskel, thanks its on my list now.

@fruttenboel

wow i just wrote a big wall of text (used proxy and called isp and ....)

bad me didn't click refresh :P


thanks i will download and install it following your instructions, but what if i needed a little help on the learning process? may i contact you on jan AT verhoeven272 DOT nl? or you got an msn?

Edit: found this but the book is "incomplete"
http://freepages.modula2.org/report4/modula-2.html

also, the book is in german O.o that can be a problem...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Programming-...5963981&sr=8-3

Thanks again :)

I meant using SYSTEM module is to the same extent dangerous as using pointers, even more specifically, void *, in "C".

Yep.

Of course.

You will find a lot of small sources on my mocka pages.

I still have a copy of "Modula-2 a complete guide". You can have it for the shipping charges.

@fruttenboel

Thanks a lot :)

the Author wrote this ... "Modula-2: A Complete Guide is both a comprehensive Modula-2 reference and a text for learning Modula-2. The only background required of the reader is experience writing programs in a structured, high-level language such as Pascal, PL/l, Ada, or C."

i only know C ( Data Types, loops, conditions, statements) i don't really know if i can handle the text without previous programming experience, but i will send you a private message about the shipping address/money transfer...

Thanks again :)

Hi again,

the mocka compiler is acting strange ....

and here is my /etc/profile


Thanks in advance.

partially solved.... ubuntu sets environment variables in /etc/environment not /etc/profile

but i still get this:

and this:

Thanks in advance.

solved :

Well done!