LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > Programming
User Name
Password
Programming This forum is for all programming questions.
The question does not have to be directly related to Linux and any language is fair game.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 03-22-2019, 10:59 PM   #46
freemedia2018
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2019
Distribution: various automated remasters
Posts: 216

Rep: Reputation: 208Reputation: 208Reputation: 208

Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
Is the political climate in today's age as so one-sided where nobody
has the tolerance to hear an opposing view? This is a technology forurm and as technologists we want the best and only best (whatever that may be), personal egos or ideloglogies need not apply.
It isn't that-- it's just that when you ask people to give advice and then you go out of the way to refute the advice, you're sending a strong "don't bother in the future" message to them. You're also sending that to some people around them, if the request is public.

That's how that works in practice. It isn't really much to do with the current zeitgeist, it's just one of those social things. But as far as this advice goes, you can take it or leave it. If you take it, you may choose to deal with people in a way that makes them more likely to offer help more than once. If you don't-- well, it isn't mandatory.
 
Old 03-22-2019, 11:48 PM   #47
jsbjsb001
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2009
Location: Earth, unfortunately...
Distribution: Currently: OpenMandriva. Previously: openSUSE, PCLinuxOS, CentOS, among others over the years.
Posts: 3,826

Rep: Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019Reputation: 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
...
If I have knowledge of something that is contrary to what you're all telling me, im going to bring it up. If that angers or annoys you guys that's on you. But I dont see anything wrong in trying to iron out what the best way forward in terms of solving problems. Is the political climate in today's age as so one-sided where nobody
has the tolerance to hear an opposing view? This is a technology forurm and as technologists we want the best and only best (whatever that may be), personal egos or ideloglogies need not apply.
...
But this is exactly the problem with your responses so far... it's got absolutely nothing to do with "personal egos or ideologies". As has been repeatedly said to you now; you asked about how relevant Perl is, and we have plainly told you that it's not just about one particular language, it's about having a wide range of skills, and more to the point; each language has it's own benefits, or pros and cons, so to speak. I'm not sure why you don't seem to understand that. There are many different sides to programming, and many different types of programming, so it's not really logical that there would therefore be only one tool for the job. The same is true for most other things in IT, and if you did honestly have the experience you claim, you should know this.

At this point for me, there is clearly no point in responding to this thread anymore. As said above, good luck, it seems you will very much much need it.
 
Old 03-23-2019, 12:09 AM   #48
NevemTeve
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Budapest
Distribution: Debian/GNU/Linux, AIX
Posts: 4,149

Rep: Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523
Also there is the halting problem:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
 
Old 03-23-2019, 12:28 AM   #49
freemedia2018
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2019
Distribution: various automated remasters
Posts: 216

Rep: Reputation: 208Reputation: 208Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by NevemTeve View Post
Also there is the halting problem:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
As much as I think Turing is has got to be one of 500 most important humans in history, I've never understood how the halting problem is a problem "in real life." I figure it's extremely important for computer scientists. For most people, I imagine it's about as relevant as Maxwell's equations.

We are talking about stuff that's vital to science, I'm not disputing that. I've never made use of Maxwell's equations while constructing an electromagnet, or doing any other task-- I figure engineers use them, I really don't know. I'm not here to debate the relevance of the Halting problem to most computer users (or programmers) instead, I'm mostly just curious what the relevance is-- or why it really matters for Perl coders even.
 
Old 03-23-2019, 12:38 AM   #50
young_jedi
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2019
Posts: 37

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemedia2018 View Post
As much as I think Turing is has got to be one of 500 most important humans in history, I've never understood how the halting problem is a problem "in real life." I figure it's extremely important for computer scientists. For most people, I imagine it's about as relevant as Maxwell's equations.

We are talking about stuff that's vital to science, I'm not disputing that. I've never made use of Maxwell's equations while constructing an electromagnet, or doing any other task-- I figure engineers use them, I really don't know. I'm not here to debate the relevance of the Halting problem to most computer users (or programmers) instead, I'm mostly just curious what the relevance is-- or why it really matters for Perl coders even.
I think he's implying that this thread is like the halting problem in that it might keep going on forever...
 
Old 03-23-2019, 12:42 AM   #51
NevemTeve
Senior Member
 
Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Budapest
Distribution: Debian/GNU/Linux, AIX
Posts: 4,149

Rep: Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523Reputation: 1523
In a forum, 'Halting program' means that the participants keep repeating their parts without convincing each other (cf: infinite loop).
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-23-2019, 12:54 AM   #52
Turbocapitalist
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Distribution: Linux Mint, Devuan, OpenBSD
Posts: 5,504
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761Reputation: 2761
Get past any opinions and take a look at the data you can get, or are being shown. You wanted to know if perl is still relevant for professionals. The answer is a resounding "yes". You don't have to like that answer, you are entitled to an opinion. However, liking or disliking the answer won't change the fact that it is relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
Thats weird I though I though low-level languages were more efficient, nevertheless Im suprised BSD would do that in the first place given their "If i aint broke dont fix it" mantra. And Python can emulate Perl's regex via PCRE (Perl compatible regular expression).
It is not emulation. However, different languages are efficient at different things and often in different scales as well. Python is a decent training language and enjoys a surge of popularity at the moment in part buoyed by the money of groups which include the Raspberry Pi Foundation, which does good work. A problem with training languages is once they are learned, people try to shoehorn them into all situations instead of moving on.

Everything here is about using the right tool for the job. Perl happens to be far more efficient at processing text and especially at regular expressions than anything else on the market. Some people fall for the steady background whine against perl and have to find out the hard way, if they're lucky enough to find out and even luckier to be able to correct themselves. Worse, some participate in that steady whine and/or chase ephemeral trends.

You, yourself, might be able to squeak by in many situtations with python's very small subset of PCRE but look for yourself:

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Pe.../t/re/re_tests

https://github.com/jonashaag/cpython...st/re_tests.py

Then write some iterative tests and run them a few thousand times to amplify the difference and then check the amount of system resources used during the test, not the wall clock.

Anyway my ignore list is short but might increment by one soon.

However, whichever language you do write in, write clearly. Code is read far more times than it is written so the return on investment will be very high. Often it will be you, and your future self will thank your past self for doing so.

Last edited by Turbocapitalist; 03-23-2019 at 01:10 AM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-23-2019, 01:21 AM   #53
freemedia2018
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2019
Distribution: various automated remasters
Posts: 216

Rep: Reputation: 208Reputation: 208Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocapitalist View Post
A problem with training languages is once they are learned, people try to shoehorn them into all situations instead of moving on.
True, although a lot more computing tasks get done that way.

As much as it would be nice to have the world's skilled coders write all the software needed by everybody else, some of the tasks that can afford to be done by less skilled coders (and the problem: some of the tasks that can't afford it as well) are not going to be done otherwise. Many of the best coders are alright with that, ("what exactly is the problem, really?") but that doesn't work in practice for everybody else. But your lament is valid, the situation has real costs.

I have a training language for Python itself.

I get way more coding done, with less bother, than I did before I started using it.

Last edited by freemedia2018; 03-23-2019 at 01:23 AM.
 
Old 03-23-2019, 09:15 AM   #54
TB0ne
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Distribution: SuSE, RedHat, Slack,CentOS
Posts: 23,625

Rep: Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870Reputation: 6870
Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
Thats weird I though I though low-level languages were more efficient, nevertheless Im suprised BSD would do that in the first place given their "If i aint broke dont fix it" mantra. And Python can emulate Perl's regex via PCRE (Perl compatible regular expression).
Funny, if Perl is so dead, why did Python emulate parts of it??
Quote:
If I have knowledge of something that is contrary to what you're all telling me, im going to bring it up. If that angers or annoys you guys that's on you. But I dont see anything wrong in trying to iron out what the best way forward in terms of solving problems. Is the political climate in today's age as so one-sided where nobody
has the tolerance to hear an opposing view? This is a technology forurm and as technologists we want the best and only best (whatever that may be), personal egos or ideloglogies need not apply.
You have been told, but you don't want to hear it. The 'best way forward' is you LEARNING MULTIPLE THINGS and getting broad knowledge. You've been told this point blank many times. But always come back with "Well, I don't think so because I saw a video", or some junk like that. Why bother asking? If I wanted an email administrator, and I had the choice to hire one that ONLY knew postfix (no scripting, no nothing else, but he knew postfix inside and out), and another who knew sendmail, postfix, dovecot, scripting, and a few programming languages, which do you think is more valuable???
Quote:
Perl’s problem is that if the Perl community cannot attract beginner users like Python successfully has, it runs the risk of become like Children of Men, dwindling away to a standstill; vast repositories of hieroglyphic code (CPAN) looming in sections of the Internet and in data center partitions like the halls of the Mines of Moria. (Awe-inspiring and historical? Yes. Lively? No.)..
Stupid analogy? Yes. Accurate? No. Again, perl is *STILL* very, very active. Whether you want to admit others use it or not is your problem. And don't confuse YOU wanting to come up with a lame excuse for not wanting to learn it, for others desire TO learn it.
Quote:
You'll never convince me that colleage (that are not carreer focused) is anything but an intellectual waste of time. And its not cause im close-minded on the subject, but it's cause I know im right... Yes you may need collage to get a high-paying job, but like tech certificates the diploma means nothing.. I know that's hard
for someone who's always been told from birth that they had to go to college to be anything in the world, but its true. E.g. I can get a degree in a field totally unrelated to technology, yet I'll still land a tech job over someone who's way more knowledgeable simply cause I have the degree.. Its just a piece of paper bro.. I'd respect it if they actually taught you something during the first three years, rather than just a last (not worth going into debt)..
They have many spelling and grammar courses in college, too. And saying "I'm not close-minded on the subject, but it's cause I know I'm right", is pretty ironic. All this says is that you've made up your mind, and don't want to bother with ANYTHING else. Meaning you're close minded, doesn't it??? If you have a desire to learn, then the diploma does mean something. If it's someone like you, much learning is pointless.
Quote:
I bet you're wrong.. Python isnt just a buzzword it has successully superceded Perl in more ways than one.. The only thing that will replace Python is Go (I called it first).. And I dont get why you keep insisting that I only know one language; im learning Go, bash, and javascript (and I guess Perl since I already started)... But I think its cause you think you know way more and so you just blow everything I say off.. Im sure there things I know you dont.. We all can learn from eachother my young padawan..
If you say so.
Quote:
Yes I came in leaning a certain way hoping for other to confirm my suspicions. Obviously thats not happening, but I'm not adament about what I think. I want to be proved wrong if indeed I am wrong. So far I dont think I am.. But I will say thank you nevertheless..
You are, but you don't want to admit it, so you keep on. If you know so much, why haven't you gotten a great job with your current skills? Why haven't you written your 'awesome' book? Is there something stopping you? You obviously have a computer, so doing either is within your reach. Go prove everyone here wrong.

Post your resume of Python (with some Go, bash and javascript) on the Indeed.com site you mentioned, and see what you get.
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-23-2019, 06:57 PM   #55
young_jedi
Member
 
Registered: Mar 2019
Posts: 37

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Having to respond to the onslaught of attacks against me is taking up too much of my valuable time.. I will respectfully walk away from this conversation, have a good day, and may the force NOT be with you..

Last edited by young_jedi; 03-23-2019 at 07:10 PM.
 
Old 03-23-2019, 07:42 PM   #56
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, Vsido, tinycore, Q4OS
Posts: 3,672

Rep: Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640Reputation: 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
Having to respond to the onslaught of attacks against me is taking up too much of my valuable time.. I will respectfully walk away from this conversation, have a good day, and may the force NOT be with you..
I do not think anyone was attacking you. I have seen "attacking", and this was not it. There was some emphatic expression of frustration with your asking questions and then arguing with the answers. Attitude seems contagious.


I hope you learn much, and find your own answers.
 
4 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-24-2019, 05:08 AM   #57
pan64
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Hungary
Distribution: debian/ubuntu/suse ...
Posts: 16,200

Rep: Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419Reputation: 5419
Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
Having to respond to the onslaught of attacks against me is taking up too much of my valuable time.. I will respectfully walk away from this conversation, have a good day, and may the force NOT be with you..
Yes, there is no attack here (against you or anyone else). Probably there are different opinions. But that is ok.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 03-24-2019, 04:22 PM   #58
dugan
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 9,985

Rep: Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568
Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
Having to respond to the onslaught of attacks against me is taking up too much of my valuable time.. I will respectfully walk away from this conversation, have a good day, and may the force NOT be with you..
What are you talking about?
 
Old 03-25-2019, 04:25 AM   #59
bigearsbilly
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2004
Location: england
Distribution: NetBSD, Void, Debian, Mint, Ubuntu, Puppy, Raspbian
Posts: 3,487

Rep: Reputation: 233Reputation: 233Reputation: 233
Perl doesn't really fit with the modern rigid, type-safe, agile, blah blah, OO C++/Python Programming Taliban. (or should I say 'coding')

If you use Perl most of the 'cool kids' will pull a face as if you have just lit up a cigar in school.

There are lots of great languages that don't adhere to the modern group-think.
e.g lisp to name one.
Instead of using the right tool for the job we have to fit square pegs in round holes.

"one language to rule them all and in the darkness bind them"

:-)
 
Old 03-25-2019, 04:51 AM   #60
fatmac
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2011
Location: Upper Hale, Surrey/Hants Border, UK
Posts: 4,071

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by young_jedi View Post
Is chose to learn Perl over Python cause I thought it to be the superior programming language, and I still think it is. But as an aspiring IT professional
is it actually of any use if no uses it, cause they all use Python instead? Am I right in my thinking that hardly anyone uses Perl still?
Late to the debate, but I think you will find lots of perl on the internet & other customised servers. Perl was, & still is, a viable scripting language, python was developed as a way to script GUI programs, but is flexible enough to use as a plain scripting language too.

The choice of which language to use to do any kind of coding, boils down more to efficiency of the code, least resistance, cleaner code, etc.

All languages have their devotees, but they may not be the best one for the job in hand.

Then there will be Corporate Choice, by that I mean that the 'bosses' have deemed a certain language to be used, so that is what is used.

Learn as many languages as possible if you want to work as a coder.
 
3 members found this post helpful.
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Please ensure your reply is still relevant and timely. TheIndependentAquarius LQ Suggestions & Feedback 3 11-17-2012 11:44 AM
Is The UNIX-HATER Handbook still relevant today? mangotree General 4 07-16-2012 10:28 AM
LXer: Is Fedora Linux Still Relevant? LXer Syndicated Linux News 2 06-20-2009 06:09 AM
LXer: Is Fedora Linux Still Relevant? LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 06-19-2009 10:30 PM
LXer: Debian @15 is it still relevant? LXer Syndicated Linux News 1 08-18-2008 06:29 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > Programming

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:51 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration