Nah, my job isn't that complicated. I don't actually write any G code. Extremely rarely I edit some of it. It's basically just drawing polygons with CAD and machine shop stuff after that.

I'd like to learn G-code on the job somewhere and do all the complicated metal fabricating stuff, I think I would pick it up extremely fast. But I don't know who would train me, I think they all want people with tech school degrees.

is it the same G code that i am thinking about?
if so a very long time ago i wrote a dos program that you feed it G code and it creates
and repersentation of the objecyt in VGA 640x480 16 C

It isn't necessarily what you know, though that is important. It is what you can learn and how well you can tie together what you know with what you need to learn to provide an appropriate solution for the customer.

The person with the degree may be clueless, but the degree indicates that he knows how to learn. Or, at least, it should mean that.

Lacking the degree, the burden is upon you to convince a potential employer that you not only know enough to do his job, but you can readily learn what you don't know.

Speaking for myself, I have found that I do best with computers when I come to the table with a skill set that is NOT related to computers, but the company needs a job done with a computer that involves implementing some of my skill set in code. When such a situation arises, I can easily convince the business that I can do their job - and I have very little competition because there are not that many people available in this country with my skill set.

So I always find work. I consult, by the way; I am not an employee.

The skills I bring to the table are advanced degrees in physics with a lot of background in RF systems, electronic systems in general, and signal processing/signal analysis. These days I make most of my money in the satellite communications industry.

Point is that, though I have the pieces of paper, those pieces of paper do not say "computer" any place on them.

And when I go to sell myself, I take this tack: "sure I can program a computer. I have programmed lots of computers. But so have lots of other people. Big deal. What I bring to the table here is a deep understanding of the technology field you are working in, from the theoretical to the operational. So I will understand your problem, from a functional and from a needs standpoint. I'll be able to use my knowledge of your technology as well as my knowledge of computers to produce a product that will do your job, taking into account all the environmental and functional issues that you might not be able to articulate to me up front, because I already am aware of them."

I would propose to you that you will have your best chance if you do the same thing. You say CNC and CAD. I suggest you go purchase yourself a robotics kit that is intended to interface to a computer. Build the robot, program it, learn all about it. Write programs, extend them. Become familiar with the issues. Familiar with the dynamics of the robot arm. Familiar with the development language of robotics (I don't mean a computer language, I mean the jargon).

Pick up a couple of books on programming of CNC machines. There will be a couple of layers there; the on the shop floor programming, and the programming by the vendor that provides the capability for the on the shop floor programming to work. Learn the language, learn the jargon. In this case, it wouldn't hurt to ACTUALLY learn the language of a CNC machine, and perhaps duplicate that language for your robot.

Then go to the robotics firms and the CNC firms, and the VAR companies that integrate CNC machines and robots and deploy them on the shop floor. What you say to them is: "sure I can program a computer. But lots of people can do that. Big deal. What I bring to you is experience with robotics and CNC machines that extends from the theoretical clear through the end-user practical. I have used these things on the shop floor, I have wrestled with interface peculiarities. I have torn my hair out trying to do something that the software just wouldn't let me do. Unlike many developers of CNC or robotics languages and controllers, I have been there and I know about the usability issues. I can help you.

You could make a very credible argument this way, drawing upon your actual experience. You might even convince someone to bring you in in a junior capacity so that you could show that you could do it.

A robotics kit? Where do I get one of those?

It's really hard not to get discouraged. I mean how am I supposed to compete against people with computer engineering degrees? I don't anything about circuits or e^pi*i+1=0 or Diff EQ or any of that high level crazy stuff. All I know is Calc I and high school physics.

So, why won't you study the crazy stuff ?

Christ I wouldn't even know where to start. Circuits I, circuits II. Diff EQ. Wouldn't I need to do lots of lab experiments? Where would I get equimpment to do that?

I don't think I can learn Diff EQ anyway, that stuff bores me to tears. It's like driving bamboo under my fingernails.

electronics are easy
try some online reading

But seriously, where do I get a robotics kit that is intended to interface with a computer?

Given your lack of paper qualifications in Comp Sci & prev prog jobs, I'd definitely go with expanding your industry skills up and sideways ie robotics, CNC etc and eventually contact the CNC makers.
I'm not into that stuff myself, but throwing 'home robot kit programmable' at google brought up a lot of promising looking sites.

I know the job mkt is slow (at least over in USA), but a positive outlook is definitely the key.
Also, if you have to learn some maths for some subject you're passionate about, you'll be surprised how much easier it is than you think now.
You're obviously fairly smart, its just a matter of incentive/desire to master something.
There's an org in UK called The Open University; basically people such as yourself take degrees part time over several yrs at home, whilst working a normal job.
The Chancellor of the Uni was once asked if its hard to teach people like that and he said its easy if they've got the motivation (paraphrasing a bit).

Life is "simple" - if you think you know electronics, but do not know differential equations, you do not know electronics, i.e. you know it as form of religion - you believe what others tell you.

icecube...;

If I read this and some of your other recent posts, I get a very confusing picture. Frankly, I'm a bit uncertain as to whether we should take you seriously.

Many years ago, I was in a position where I was interviewing a lot of job applicants. I always asked one question: "Why did you go into engineering?" If I got something like: "My father said that's where the big money is." the candidate was probably not going to get hired.

My point? Go back to basics. What is it that interests you?....get's you excited? Find people that are working on things that you get excited about, and then find a way to be part of their world. If that means learning differential equations, then bite the bullet and DO IT.

Interviewing: One of the best things you can do is ask intelligent questions about what the company does. This follows naturally from focussing on your interests. You want to present your skills, but NOT spend the whole interview talking about yourself.

Finally, some empathy about differential equations---I hated them, and pretty much hated ALL of calculus.......until I got interested in circuit analysis and discovered Laplace transforms. AHA!!!---so this stuff is actually useful after all!!

You're asking a lot of questions about what you **should** do, but you are the only one with the answer.

Now here is an interesting thought problem.....If I am not mistaken, there are a bazillion people (some deceased, to be sure....) out there who have designed and built electronic equipment and don't even know what a differential equation is---let alone how to solve one.

Study some RF or hi-fi gear---especially the various tricks for grounding and shielding. I'll bet some of the best engineers would stumble on basic algebra.

I am a radio-physicist by education, and and electronics/VLSI designer by trade, so I know a lot about grounding.

And in one of my designs I actually used active shielding.

Still, capacitor charge/discharge through, say, resistor is described by a differential equations; the widely used impedance formulas are a result of solving the differential equations.

Vs = supply voltage
R = net series resistance
C = net node capacitance
t = time
e = base of natural log

Vc = Vs (1 - e**(-t/RC))

Doesn't look like a differential equation to me.....
Very true, but you still do not need to know differential equations to design circuits. I'll bet you there is more than one circuit designer out there that doesn't even know the formulas------they just know that 0.1uF "works".

I don't know if anybody should take me seriously. But I'm being serious in this thread. Am I interested in robotics? I have no idea. After the thread turned to robotics I've been really confused and intimidated. I've never touched robotics. I think maybe the guys suggesting it think my job is more technical than it really is. Yeah I work with CNC's but all the technical stuff I do is just drawing simple polygons in CAD and telling the machine which tools to run. It's not hard.

All I know is I like programming in my spare time and I'm better at it than some guys with Comp Sci degrees. So I wanted to know if it's possible to get into the field without a degree.

Next thing I know people are suggesting robotics and I know about what Computer Engineering students study, circuits and diff EQ and stuff. It just seems intimidating. Can I teach myself that on my own? Is it beyond my caliber? How would I even do it? Buy a book and work through it? A free online course? Do I need to learn Calc II and III? Can I even learn Circuits by reading a book or do I need to do lab experiments? How would I do lab experiments in my apartment?

If there was some kind of tutorial on the internet with step by step of what to teach myself maybe I could get a handle on it but as it is the whole idea completely blows me away and I really don't see it happening. I have no idea where to start. People may as well tell me to go design a rocket and send it to Mars. I mean I'm not John Carmack, I'm just some guy.

I just wasn't expecting the thread to go that way. I was expecting people to tell me to practice all kinds of programming skills and then work my way into web design or database administration or something. Because that's all I really know how to do is program.