just remember that saying you program with java or python makes you sound so much sexier to the ladies than saying you program in visual "ihavenodick" basic

=)

lol. The real reason why I don't want to take vb.

vp just doesn't provide the "chickaboom" factor needed by today's modern programmers

Okay, I have to throw my two coppers in on this one...

Most of the languages I've heard mentioned are Great, *for their
intended purpose*

My favorite language for practical throw together in no time
work is PhP but I would only use it web based because it isn't
really convenient to carry around and use since you need
the interpreter.

On a similar note we have Python which has it's good points
and bad points but doesn't add much more than PhP while
requiring a bit more code for similar tasks. But interactive
coding in IDLE is a great way to learn the basics.



If you are a *nix user C is ~god~. Having coded for a few different
muds over the years I've found it to be an indispensable ally and
you have a great deal of flexibility in being able to distribute it
without many headaches.

C++ seems to be a Windoze animal. While I haven't used it
the people I know that do... would sooner give up their Angelina
Jolie nudie collection than switch to something else.

Perl? See Python...

COBOL Heh Heh Ask Grandpa. I wrote several business apps
in this monstrosity back in the day... I still twitch uncontrollably
whenever someone says the words punch-card.

I hope this helps.

My personal opinion is that OO is a nice technique, but it isn't always the best technique to use for a particular application. Python lets you play with OO, functional and structured programming styles, which IMHO gives you a more rounded introduction to programming. Of course I am a bit biased because I have a voracious primal loathing for Java

I would think that Python is more general purpose than PHP, though.

I don't think C++ is a great beginner language because there's just so much of it to learn - it could take a year to feel comfortable with using the whole language, espacially if you include the STL in that. Also, most C++ compilers are a little bit broken (don't implement some language features properly, etc.) and spit out really obscure error messages.

And now I'll shut up and stop arguing

Alex

I haven't come across anything I couldn't do in PhP that
I would have considered using Python for... But It's all a
matter of what you are doing.

It's a matter of ambition. I started with COBOL, .*. I have
little concern for C++ scaring someone away from coding
if it is truly what they were meant to do. IMHO


Yeah, Why Don't Ye?!?! *Just Kidding* Heh Heh

I'll give you that. (= I agree with your comment about OO not always being appropriate for every app. My perl code is general scarred with bits of both in it.. (= It's horrible.. but I suppose that it works for me..

I'm curious as to where this comes from.. it's just not a language you like, or what?

That is definitely true. PHP is VERY web-based. I don't even know if there is a CL interpreter for it.. python is very rounded, as you pointed out (though in different context) for doing many different things, which therein lies it's power (similar to perl's ability). From text parsing to maintenance utilities to web-scripting to GUI apps to ... I could keep going. (=

Yuppers there is. Stock with Red Hat, as far back as 7.3
Possibly earlier than 7.3 but I don't know from personal
experience.

Good point. On the other hand, i think C++ is needlessly difficult (or at least more difficult than several other languages which are comparable in power and speed).

Well, I just think it takes a few very good ideas from languages which preceded it and then does a rather conservative and half-assed job of creamming them into a dialect of C++. I don't actually think it's a bad language, I just wish it had been more ambitious. It doesn't use any of the clever ideas in programming languages developed in the 80s and 90s except OO, which it implements with a lot of C++ baggage. The split between basic types and object types is a real pain, you have to know the type of an array to do anything with it, no closures, no type inference...
Phew, got that off my chest...

Amd now I really will shut up because this isn't answering the original poster's question...

Alex

Php interpreter.. hmm.. well.. then I better keep my mouth shut, because I don't know enough php to say anything intelligent. (=

if you're looking to use python for web apps then take a peek at zope.org

You guys have to understand that when it comes to the programming world I am like a small child and will believe anyone's opinion, all this debating make's things very confusing. llama_meme you've almost convinced me that maybe Java isn't the language for a beginner/me. But I've heard things such as no closures as a benefit to Java. I should have setup a poll. :|

Krill:

I'll make it easy for you, then.. (=

Start with python.

Python will be a great language to start, because it's easy to get into quickly, and there are lots of resources available (python.org's tutorials, for one, also go to codeexamples.org and check out the python code examples.. realtime code to show you how the language looks).

When you're ready to delve into OO, python has it, and will make it easier to roll in to. If you decide you don't like it, try java.. but stick with it for a month or more and see how you like it after that time.

I apologize for the lengthy debates on the matter.. as you have no doubt seen, we can tend to get accustomed to our likes/dislikes.

As I said initially, just go with something, and if you like it, keep on truckin'.. don't let anyone else tell you that the language they use is better than the language you use.. just try to do your best with it!

I will be happy to help you in any way I can, be it getting started, tweaking code, tips/tricks, debugging, etc.. as will many of the folks here..

So, start with python. I think that you will probably enjoy it more than java right now.

Omg is that some sort of consensus. Close the thread, hehe

Alex

No, no, I definately want to try Java first (sry llama_meme). I've done quite a bit of reading on Java so far. I'm just gonna let this thread die now.
Thanks all.