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Old 04-16-2008, 12:29 AM   #1
dolphans1
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Virtualbox, Mandriva & Windows 98


Wow, virtualbox is great installing windows2000, which has guest addtions, but man, another story with windows98.

Problem lies in that it is sluggish and takes a long time to install.

The graphics has a lot to do with it (no graphic drivers), and not many topics on this combination of installs, because graphics resolution is set to 640X480, installing SVC-pack is impossible so some have suggested SciTech Display Doctor Beta 7.0, which helps improve graphics, but Windows98 runs slow and sluggish, and SciTech has their banner boot up on every boot, which is annoying and it slows the OS down.

Personally, I do not advise installing Windows98 and I will be frank, don't waste your time with Windows98. Go with VMware, it is by far more superior running windows98.

SciTech Display Doctor in my opinion, is not what its hyped up to be, it does give better graphics, however virtualbox still runs sluggish.

If anyone else has a differing experience, please reply.

Mandriva Spring 2008 - VirtualBox - Windows98

d-1

Last edited by dolphans1; 04-16-2008 at 12:34 AM.
 
Old 04-16-2008, 07:49 AM   #2
GlennsPref
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Hi, I had the same experience, but thought I would reply anyhow.

I managed to get win98 games running with winxp and VBox.

The same games had trouble (would not run) with winxp (native).

I read many forums here and else where, that win98 and vbox was not too great. I tried, before that, and had heaps of trouble.

I run the 98 games in compt-mode with vbox/winxp.

cheers,
 
Old 04-16-2008, 06:27 PM   #3
dahveed3
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I've done it, Virtualbox and Windows 98SE. You're right about the slowness. I downloaded and installed the Rain20 program that gives the proper halt instruction to the processor but whatever the benefit (not eating up processor usage) really wasn't noticeable to me.

With Sci-tech you've got to fine the keygen since, regardless what the Virtualbox info tells you, the free keys offered for their previous versions do not work on the unreleased Beta 7 that is the one that works on 98. Once registered, you can check for updates, it'll eventually come up with a scripted screen that includes somewhere in there that it detected you already have the latest version. Then click the home button and once there you can even activate the experimental OpenGL 3D support and do the tests where you can see glxgears running on 98! It's too slow for real 3D games but I just left it on as I think it gives better direct draw support with it active. Doesn't add to the slowness either.

Anyway, once doing all that you no longer get the splash screen until it thinks it's time to check for updates again. Go through that again (every 15 days I think) and the splash goes away again.

For audio, download and extract (install WinRAR or WinZIP) the Realtek AC97 codec driver for Windows 95 (the VXD version). Setup.exe won't run, so you need to get it extracted and point Device Manager to it (Right Click Multimedia PCI Audio Controller and change driver, have disk, point it to the extracted driver). Reboot and you have pretty good audio.

The internet is way too slow to browse. 2D Window Explorer use is not too bad. Office software, encyclopedias, 2D games including many of which use stuff like QuickTime and Shockwave Director, that XP SP2 broke, work great.

I use the Unofficial Auto-Patcher for Windows 98SE, 98SE2ME, and 98MP10 to get all the updates (msfn.org Windows 98 forum and mdgx.com), then added stuff.

VMWare is far superior for 9x, and QEMU is, from what I've read, also better suited for 9x. But Virtualbox CAN work with it and get the few things that only work on 9x going for you. Nice if you like Virtualbox for installing Linux distro's, XP, Vista, etc.

I've heard they're working on getting a SoundBlaster 16 audio setup going for the next release. Nice for MS-DOS stuff, but I wish they would get the ES1371 PCI audio that VMWare has. It offers more than the Intel AC97 and more than SP16 offers as it's a PCI soundcard being emulated. I've used the Creative software on it on VMWare and it's cool to run PlayCenter, have pretty good midi with the Ensoniq 8MB waveset, and the Creative Mixer.
 
Old 04-16-2008, 09:29 PM   #4
dolphans1
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I did something easier, i deleted Windows98 completely, its not even worth using how slow it was on VirtualBox.

To make matters worse or to raise questions about VirtualBox, I tried to install Mandriva Spring Linux 2008 Power Pack onto Virtual Box and it failed after a very lengthy sit and wait only, to have to hard-boot.

The same with Windows Vista, locks it up.

The newer Thiz-Linux 7.0 installed great.

The older Thiz_Linux failed.

Windows 64 bit failed to install as well.

That's 5 out of 6 and at first I originally had problems loading Windows2000. I finally had to lower the dynamic HDD from 1024MB to 512MB and the video card memory from 8MB to 32MB to get it to install.

I am using a new AMD 64 bit AM-2 with 3GB of Ram 300GB of HDD.

I an using the intergrated Nvidia Graphics card, would the present an issue as far as loading the other operating systems?

I can't imagine virtualbox being this bad....


d-1
 
Old 04-17-2008, 12:48 AM   #5
Micro420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphans1 View Post
Go with VMware, it is by far more superior...
BINGO! I've used different VM's such as VirtualBox and Xen. VMware, hands down, is the winner!
 
Old 04-17-2008, 12:08 PM   #6
dahveed3
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Well, no, it's actually incredibly good. Problems such as almost no guests installing correctly indicate that something is misconfigured or that the specific guests you've tried demand specific ways to install. I recall that older versions of SUSE needed to be installed using text mode, for example, before later installing the rest of the system and the Guest Additions. No idea what's going on with your troubles.

Your installed videocard bears no relation to anything in the virtualized environment since Virtualbox emulates the hardware. You won't be using you NVidia card within any guests in any virtualization software (VMWare, Virtualbox, whatever).

The forums at virtualbox.org might be a good place to post up some of the problems you've experienced, and the specific distro websites and their wiki's and forums would be good places to examine whether they have specific instructions regarding using their distros on Virtualbox or VMWare. I know that OpenSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu, and others all have nice wiki pages with instructions as well as folks in their forums who post how-to guides.

Maybe something as simple as one tweak to that virtual drives settings or one tweak to what you choose when creating it may solve the whole thing. They do relate all over their forums and documentation how they do not do any testing or support for Windows 9x guests so if it works at all it's luck. And they specifically state they have no intention or see any reason to get 9x working better. So what we have is what we get. VMWare, on the other hand, fully supports Windows 9x guests and still provide the VMWare Tools for them.

As for almost no distros working as guests on it, that's not the usual or no one would use Virtualbox. If you want to use it you've got to do some investigation, looking up the suggestions on the distro and virtualbox websites and forums.
 
Old 04-17-2008, 04:05 PM   #7
dolphans1
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You may have a point, I may have spoken too soon, but I have no other reference point to go by.

The VMware-Workstation 6.02 & 6.03 will not load up on my kernel of the just released version of Mandriva 2.6.24, so I went with VMware Beta 6.5 and it loaded up without a hitch. It's a little different than the other VMware workstatins, but I also had an issue with the VMware tools graphics drivers and the mouse drivers, they wont install on Win98. Anyway I loaded Sci-Tech Doctor Beta-7 and it runs really nice.

As you know IE in Win98 is useless without the service pack, and the SVC-pack CD requires larger resolution to navigate through it. The thought just hit me now, I never thought to view it full screen with low resolution.

I will report about audio as soon as I get some free time.

d-1





Quote:
Originally Posted by dahveed3 View Post
Well, no, it's actually incredibly good. Problems such as almost no guests installing correctly indicate that something is misconfigured or that the specific guests you've tried demand specific ways to install. I recall that older versions of SUSE needed to be installed using text mode, for example, before later installing the rest of the system and the Guest Additions. No idea what's going on with your troubles.

Your installed videocard bears no relation to anything in the virtualized environment since Virtualbox emulates the hardware. You won't be using you NVidia card within any guests in any virtualization software (VMWare, Virtualbox, whatever).

The forums at virtualbox.org might be a good place to post up some of the problems you've experienced, and the specific distro websites and their wiki's and forums would be good places to examine whether they have specific instructions regarding using their distros on Virtualbox or VMWare. I know that OpenSUSE, Debian, Ubuntu, and others all have nice wiki pages with instructions as well as folks in their forums who post how-to guides.

Maybe something as simple as one tweak to that virtual drives settings or one tweak to what you choose when creating it may solve the whole thing. They do relate all over their forums and documentation how they do not do any testing or support for Windows 9x guests so if it works at all it's luck. And they specifically state they have no intention or see any reason to get 9x working better. So what we have is what we get. VMWare, on the other hand, fully supports Windows 9x guests and still provide the VMWare Tools for them.

As for almost no distros working as guests on it, that's not the usual or no one would use Virtualbox. If you want to use it you've got to do some investigation, looking up the suggestions on the distro and virtualbox websites and forums.
 
Old 04-17-2008, 11:30 PM   #8
webaware
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Works just fine in QEMU (no kernel acceleration).
 
Old 04-18-2008, 12:41 AM   #9
dolphans1
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What OS system are you running and what settings and what platform?

I found the vmware 6.5 Beta does not like the FTP setting during installation with Mandriva Spring Power Pack 2.6.24 2008 and the installation would stall. The 2nd go around I selected none as my sources and picked them up later at easy urpmi.

d-1



Quote:
Originally Posted by webaware View Post
Works just fine in QEMU (no kernel acceleration).

Last edited by dolphans1; 04-18-2008 at 08:25 PM.
 
Old 04-18-2008, 01:15 AM   #10
webaware
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphans1 View Post
What OS system are you running and what settings and what platform?
Running Fedora 8 x86-64 on AMD 64 X2 Dual-Core TK-55, QEMU 0.9.1. Windows 98 runs fine in QEMU (either qemu or qemu-system-x86_64 -no-kernel). It didn't like running with -kernel-kqemu, nor under KVM (qemu-kvm). The command I'm running it with is:
Code:
qemu-system-x86_64 -m 128 -hda /path/to/win98.img -no-kqemu -localtime
Initially, I had trouble with the network driver in Windows 98. However, from a post on another forum, I found that the bus wasn't detected properly and needed to be specified: in device manager, find the Plug And Play BIOS device with question mark, and replace driver with PCI Bus. After that, it detected the emulated PCI NIC and all was sweet.

I have to admit that I don't actually use Windows 98, I just wanted to build one for testing stuff.
 
Old 04-18-2008, 01:20 AM   #11
webaware
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Oh yeah, and it wants to run the processor hot, because it doesn't understand the use of the HLT instruction. Google for amnhltm, a driver for Windows 98 that overcomes this.
 
Old 04-18-2008, 01:34 AM   #12
dolphans1
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Thanks, d-1



Quote:
Originally Posted by webaware View Post
Oh yeah, and it wants to run the processor hot, because it doesn't understand the use of the HLT instruction. Google for amnhltm, a driver for Windows 98 that overcomes this.
 
Old 04-18-2008, 11:05 AM   #13
dahveed3
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rain20 does the same thing. I couldn't find the other one when I searched so I just used Rain20.

So you're using 98 Gold and not Second Edition? If you could find one of those old $20 Second Edition Update cd's (not the Service Pack 1, but the upgrade to Second Edition) on Ebay, you could use the Unofficial Auto-Patcher for Windows 98 SE and quickly get your system up to date with the very latest available fixes and security patches, fixed up to work, unlike the official Microsoft versions. Info about that on msfn.org.

If you meant the Unofficial Service Pack for Windows 98SE, then there are new beta versions of that over there too. I like the Auto-Patcher better.

The vmware-any-any-update normally fixes up the VMWare releases that don't officially support newer Linux Kernels.
 
Old 04-20-2008, 10:20 AM   #14
dolphans1
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I have SVC Pack 1 and I also have ME. Is that what you are referring to?

d-1



Quote:
Originally Posted by dahveed3 View Post
rain20 does the same thing. I couldn't find the other one when I searched so I just used Rain20.

So you're using 98 Gold and not Second Edition? If you could find one of those old $20 Second Edition Update cd's (not the Service Pack 1, but the upgrade to Second Edition) on Ebay, you could use the Unofficial Auto-Patcher for Windows 98 SE and quickly get your system up to date with the very latest available fixes and security patches, fixed up to work, unlike the official Microsoft versions. Info about that on msfn.org.

If you meant the Unofficial Service Pack for Windows 98SE, then there are new beta versions of that over there too. I like the Auto-Patcher better.

The vmware-any-any-update normally fixes up the VMWare releases that don't officially support newer Linux Kernels.
 
Old 04-20-2008, 01:00 PM   #15
dahveed3
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Well not really. I'm just guessing what you have is Windows 98 Gold (not Second Edition) and the Service Pack 1.

I'm saying that most of the 3rd party optimizations and fixes for Windows 98 are based upon Windows 98 Second Edition being installed. And that to get 98 up to snuff as much as is possible using these 3rd party tools, you could upgrade your Windows 98 installation to Second Edition by finding one of those originally $20 Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition Updates cd. Folks sell those things on Ebay all the time. It's kind of crazy to spend any more than that and the full Second Edition is still selling for too much money if one already has 98 Gold. The updates cd never gave me a problem upgrading Gold to Second Edition.

Then you can use stuff like the Unofficial Auto-Patcher for Windows 98SE by Soporific on that msfn.org forum. Then you'd have a functional Windows 9x for the modern world. Since you have a Windows Me cd you could also use MDGx's 98SE2ME and gain the advantages of the latest files for 9x without the failed Microsoft Windows Me transitional software that made systems crawl and break (System Restore, System File Protection, etc. Too much for 9x).

Then installing 98MP10 gets you Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player 10 improvements courtesy of XP files and you're all set.

Just avoid WindowsUpdate as the official Microsoft fixes are often broken and have been fixed in versions installed by Auto-Patcher and it includes security fixes that Microsoft has been releasing for Internet Explorer 6 on XP but configured to patch 98's version unlike what Microsoft provides.

All that does the best it can to bring Windows 98SE, a circa 1999 operating system, up to snuff in 2008. The update compilations offered are well tested by many users. I prefer Auto-Patcher since it is a huge time and work saver, including just about all the stuff one usually would need to download and install separately, guessing what order to install them, etc.

Lots of good work has been done over there at msfn.org and mdgx.com. I suggest you check them out before using 9x these days. You'll find that some still run 98 without much of the bugs that we all suffered way back then when we all used it.
 
  


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