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Old 11-26-2005, 10:29 AM   #1
pbpersson
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Mandrake seems so KLUNKY!


Okay, I have been using Mandrake since version 9.1, I am now using 10.1 PowerPack and I have just not been a happy camper.

It is just so klunky! I don't find the setup screens very friendly, things are broken, things don't work and no one seems to care. I joined the Mandrake Club and spent $130 for one year and when I reported bugs no one would even get back to me. When I report bugs on www.MandrakeUsers.org they say yeah, it's broken, what do you expect for free? I don't think that is a very productive attitude if you are trying to compete with Windows.

When I have a problem with Windows it is already a known issue, I download some fix or get a workaround, and I'm happy.

Here is an example of something that is and has been broken for a year - you cannot switch Mandrake 10.1 to a left-handed mouse. The GUI says you can but when you switch it the setting is ignored and the buttons are not swapped. Everyone knows about it, and there are even web sites telling lefties not to install 10.1. I was able to get the mouse buttons switched by doing a bunch of command-line stuff and embedding into some system startup shell script - very klunky.

Here is another example of how the OS is broken - on my one machine I could not get the one Ethernet card setup. There is a control panel where you can go to set this up - it would ask you for a bunch of stuff and then it would chug for a while and then it would display a screen saying everything was setup - but it was not setup. As a matter of fact, nothing had changed and it was still broken.

Screens don't make any sense and there is no help. I remember a screen where it would pop up some window where it said you could optionally enter your IP Host name, your ZeroConf Host Name or your gateway IP address. If you clicked on help it would say "Here you can type your IP Host Name, your ZeroConf Host Name or your gateway IP adddress." So the screen was confusing, the help was worthless, and if the field is optional, why even bother me with it????

I just re-installed 10.1 last night and now it just displays the desktop with no icons - apparently it is broken again. Is there a distro of Linux that JUST WORKS? Perhaps one where everything is not BROKEN? Maybe one where the diagnostics don't tell you everything is working when it is obviously broken? I want one where the help screens actually have some HELP in them!

Is SUSE better? I am so disgusted with Mandrake....


Phil
 
Old 11-26-2005, 11:29 AM   #2
iggep
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I have to say, I'm frankly bewildered at what you seem to see in "Mandrake". Or rather, what you don't see. Having been using various falvors of Linux for 6 or 7 years now, I can tell you that "Mandrake" is one of the best distros; paying much more attention to the desktop than others. "Mandrake" pays attention to the day to day usage of normal users, whereas many other distros pay the majority of their attention on the server side. Which isn't to say "Mandrake" doesn't pay attention to the server side, but if one wants Linux to spread to it's utmost ability, then the desktop experience is of great importance.

Now, we all know there are problems with every distro. But to make claims that all problems with Windows are known issues, and that one simply downloads an update and things are fixed, is ridiculous. There are hosts of issues with Windows, down throughout the years, that were never fixed. Remind yourself, if you are able, of the absolute inability of Windows 98/Windows ME to run without crashing every other moment. Or Windows NT constant blue screen problems. The list goes on. The point is Microsoft has taken many years to improve their product line, and such is the case with every Distro.

But, at least with Linux, one has the absolute ability to make improvements to every aspect of the the installation. Sometimes you simply just have to research and put the hard work into it. That of course, can not be said with Windows products, since you have no access to the internal workings of it.

You can feel free to move on to other distros if you wish--and in fact I recommend that you do try others--but I can assure you, that thinking ill of "Mandrake" because of a few trivial problems is to ignore that you will undoubtedly find many such problems elsewhere as well. What's more, you do yourself injury by moving on for that reason. Instead, you should stay and make things work. Only though that will you come to understand the OS in the way Linux allows you to. Learn how every aspect of it works, and why. And through that knowledge, you can come to fix anything.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 12:37 AM   #3
Trio3b
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MDK 10.1

Have to agree with lggep about the MS stuff. MS backup was a big peice of junk, FAT and NTFS incompatibility, almost all MS Works versions incompatible with each other (probably by design), MS Outlook 2003 .pst files incompatible with earlier versions, etc, etc .......
As mentioned above, Mandrake seems to be geared more towards a desktop user. I will agree tho that I too had problems with 10.1, and it did p*ss me off.

But.....10.0 was solid and I have moved to 10.2 on the business PC, which seems to be way up to snuff. I have my printers, scanners, home network, and 'net connection rockin pretty well now and have designed and published a website using Nvu, and have migrated my Outlook files and MS Works and Excel files to GNU applications and am able to invoice my customers without the help of the PT Barnum of binary. (Gates)

It's normal to compare your experience in linux with problem solving in Windows, but the comparisons are not on an equal footing. There's a TON more information for solving problems in Windows. Anyway, I have installed MDK 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2 on 7 different PCs all with different hdwr and MDK has failed to have drivers for only 3 items.
A c555 canon printer, a winmodem, and the 3d drivers for an SiS onboard video (it DID have the generic vesa drivers, so I could use the MB).
Wxp, W2000, Wme and W98 DID NOT have the drivers for these three items and for almost HALF of the other hdwr on these PCs.
Start reading distro reviews and you will see that if you leave MDV, you may be only exchanging one set of issues for another.

good luck

Last edited by Trio3b; 11-28-2005 at 12:48 AM.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 12:45 AM   #4
pbpersson
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Re: MDK 10.1

Quote:
Originally posted by Trio3b
Have to agree with iggep about the MS stuff. MS backup was a big peice of junk, FAT and NTFS incompatibility, almost all MS Works versions incompatible with each other (probably by design), MS Outlook 2003 .pst files incompatible with earlier versions, etc, etc .......
As mentioned above, Mandrake seems to be geared more towards a desktop user. I will agree tho that I too had problems with 10.1, and it did p*ss me off.

But.....10.0 was rock solid and I have moved to 10.2 on the business PC. I have my printers, scanners, home network, and 'net connection rockin pretty well now and have designed and published a website using Nvu, and have migrated my Outlook files and MS Works and Excel files to GNU applications and am able to invoice my customers without the help of the PT Barnum of binary. (Gates)

It's normal to compare your experience in linux with problem solving in Windows, but the comparisons are not on an equal footing. There's a TON more information for solving problems in Windows. Anyway, I have installed MDK 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2 on 7 different PCs all with different hdwr and MDK has failed to have drivers for only 3 items.
A c555 canon printer, a winmodem, and the 3d drivers for an SiS onboard video( it DID have the generic 2d drivers, so I could use the MB).
Wxp, W2000, Wme and W98 DID NOT have the drivers for these three items and for almost HALF of the other hdwr on these PCs.
Start reading distro reviews and you will see that if you leave MDV, you may be only exchanging one set of issues for another.

good luck
I went with SUSE - mostly because I had already sunk $132 into Mandrake, was not happy, no longer had the club membership, and I refuse to download any "limited edition" because I think it is cripplewhere. I only have maybe 2 hours a week to spend on Linux and don't want to waste weeks tracking down all the software that is missing from the "limited edition".

So far I am thrilled with SUSE and the documentation. The book I downloaded for Mandrake 10.0 never told me about basics like XMMS and KOOKA and I could have saved SO MUCH time if I would have known just a few basics.

So....it's off to SUSE land I go. However, you are right in two comments:

1. Any problems in Windows that I encounter have already been encountered by tons of other people and there is usually a workaround if not a fix already.
2. If I don't someday sit down and spend some quality time with Linux I will never really understand it.


Phil
 
Old 11-28-2005, 01:05 AM   #5
Trio3b
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linux

Well, you seem to understand what you're up against. Kooka does suck (I removed it , Xsane does what I need).
If it makes you feel any better, consider your $132 a donation to a struggling industry. Yes from a market economy standpoint, you should have gotten better service for your buck, but if linux users are willing to "bite the bullet" and put in the sweat equity, then maybe future PC users will have the MS monkey off their backs.

cheers
 
Old 11-28-2005, 01:14 AM   #6
cs-cam
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Quote:
I don't think that is a very productive attitude if you are trying to compete with Windows.
Linux isn't trying to compete with Windows. Have your cry but if you search there are lots of people whinging that linux doesn't work and they come from a variety of different distros. Seeing as I don't have any problems and there are a lot of people around here who don't have any problems either, I'm inclined to blame the user.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 06:22 AM   #7
aerogate
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One key feature your missing is that Linux gives you the capability to fix and upgrade programs yourself, and you should at least upgrade to the latest version of mandriva 2006 ot LE 2005 rather than 10.1, the bugs still may have not been fixed that your refering too but at least then your complaining about a more current release.

I had the same response when Kopete had problems crashing when talking to icq5 users. I filled in a bug report and got little response until I found out that the version of Kopete was 0.92 and the current was 0.10.3, upgrading to the latest version solved the problem, and is also included in Mandriva 2006 as standard.

In windows, you buy the latest version, if you dont like it, your stuck for up to 6 years! in Linux, you have a whole bunch of Distro`s to choose from, with new releases every few months, along with choice of KDE, gnome etc.

I suggest getting as many live cd`s from various distro`s as possible, then you can demo them, to find one that you like the feel of.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 08:52 AM   #8
purelithium
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Re: Re: MDK 10.1

Quote:
Originally posted by pbpersson
I refuse to download any "limited edition" because I think it is cripplewhere. I only have maybe 2 hours a week to spend on Linux and don't want to waste weeks tracking down all the software that is missing from the "limited edition".
What are you talking about? The free editions contain all the necessary software you'll ever need. It contains almost all the free opensource software that you'll ever need, and if it's not in the main distro, you can get most of it via urpmi by setting up the repositories at easyurpmi.zarb.org.

If you're referencing the 2005 Limited Edition is a fully featured OS, no "cripple ware" the only difference between it and other distributions of mandrake/mandriva is that there was no boxed edition.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 05:32 PM   #9
iggep
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Yes, I'm not sure where this idea regarding 10.2/LE 2005 being crippleware. Its not. I use it in my production environment LOL.

But even if it were crippled--defined as being shipped via ISOs--without the full available compliment of available server software, that would be nothing short of irrelevent. Everything can be installed via URPMI. Since any sane person would be configing URPMI shortly after install anyway, it's hardly a "problem" even mentioning.

Perhaps the only real complaint I have with Mandriva is their documentation. It needs more emphasis. But there certainly isn't anything wrong with their product. Most of the time problems are caused by user error. Either they're using hardware that isn't supported, or they performed some action incorrectly. Most of which could still probably be fixed with a little elbow grease.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 05:40 PM   #10
tkedwards
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pbpersson no wonder you feel you've got nothing out of the club when you haven't even downloaded the latest version of Mandriva from it. I've used Mandrake since 9.2 and it has steadily improved with each release (although its far from perfect still) so there's a good chance those annoying little bugs you've found will have gone away in 2005LE or 2006 (escpecially your network card problem which sounded like a driver issue).

2005LE is not crippleware anymore than 10.1 was or 2006 is - the LE bit was some silly naming thing they went through because it was released when they were switching from 10.0, 10.1etc releases to yearly releases. Anyway since you were a silver club member (if you paid $132/year) you could have downloaded the full PowerPack versions of 2005LE or 2006 - which include far more software on the CDs/DVDs than the free versions and also include some things you don't have with the free versions (even after visiting easyurpmi) like packages for Nvidia drivers, Java and Flash.
 
Old 11-28-2005, 05:53 PM   #11
reddazz
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2005LE was not crippled, but was given the LE title because it was not available as a boxed package like previous Mandriva releases. It seems like a lot of people got confused by this. The free versions of Mandriva contain most packages that can get a system up and running as well as server packages. All you need to do is install proprietary software and configure urpmi so that you can get access to a lot more packages.

Last edited by reddazz; 11-28-2005 at 05:55 PM.
 
  


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