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Old 07-29-2004, 03:16 PM   #1
roccoisskad
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installation with xp on two hard drives


hey everyone, i'm kinda new to the linux world but my first experience with linux turned out disasterous so keep reading!

from what I understand I have always heard that linux writing to NTFS is experimental and could cause data loss...well with that said here are the specs on my current computer:

pentium 2.4 mhz w/ ht
1024 mb ram
ati 9600 pro graphics card
40 gb harddrive master
160 gb harddrive slave
CD-RW
NO FLOPPY DRIVE

now my problem occurred a while back, I had windows installed on the first 20 gigs of my master harddrive, formatted NTFS, and had a unpartitioned 20 gigs left on the last part of my harddrive. On the free space i installed mandrake 10 using the iso's i downloaded (3 disks)...the install went fine and i installed lilo to the boot record, but when i rebooted my computer it completely locked up (i couldn't even get to BIOS). since i don't have a floppy i couldn't do anything so i took it to a shop and they had to connect the harddrive to a computer that would read it and allow me to format it.

i figured the problem was due to the fact that mandrake couldn't write to the boot record because it was NTFS...

and with that said...

i want to try installing mandrake on the slave harddrive (160 gb) while i windows xp installed on the master hd (40 gb) which is again formatted as NTFS. how would i go about doing this?

i've read some articles about dual booting two harddrives and it says that i should just install the bootloader (lilo or grub but i'd prefer lilo) to the MBR on the windows partition...but wouldn't that cause the same problem i had before?!

another suggestion i read was to take the windows harddrive completely out, install linux with the bootloader on the harddrive, put windows back in as the master, attach the linux drive as slave, and set the linux drive as the active partition and then modify the bootloader file to add a windows boot sequence. so...
1) what is meant by the active partition?
2) how do i make it the active partition?
3) how would i go about modifying the bootloader?

the last suggestion i read was the same as about but leave linux as the master and windows as the slave. but once again i run into the same three questions i asked as above!?

so iin summary i'm looking for how to install linux and windows on two harddrives without destroying either harddrive!

and on a side note, can i install a floppy on the same IDE cable as my CD-RW drive? if not how do i know if my computer has the correct plugs for it? and can i even install a harddrive on the same ide cable as my CD-RW?

sorry for beeing so n00b
Thanks all!
 
Old 07-29-2004, 09:23 PM   #2
misterflibble
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What happened to your computer on your previous attempt at installing Linux was *very* odd. The fact that the partition was NTFS should not have affected the Linux installer's ability to install a bootloader since this goes in the MBR and is not part of any filesystem. Furthermore, no matter how seriously wrong the partitioning or the bootloader went, you should have been able to get into BIOS, since the the drive isn't touched until after the BIOS comes up (apart from detecting if the drive is present).

With all this happening, I share your reluctance to install a bootloader this way again. Unfortunately, the Mandrake installer doesn't seem to give you too many choices. It would be nice if it gave you the option to install it to the MBR of the second hard drive, but I don't believe it does (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If it did, then you could simply change the boot order in the BIOS to boot from the second hard disk first when you wanted to run Linux. Changing it back to the first disk would make Windows boot.

I don't believe the suggestion about removing the hard drives would work. When it was installing, Mandrake would think that the disk its on is hda and configure it's bootloader accordingly. When you stick the Windows drive back in, the linux drive would then become hdb since its now the second drive, and it's bootloader wouldn't work. I don't know what whoever told you this meant about the active partitions because I don't believe it matters much to Linux. Windows, however needs to be the active partition to run.

One solution that I can come up with is to hook up the Linux drive as master and the Windows drive as slave (which I think is one of the suggestions you had). Then the bootloader would be installed to the master (linux) drive and Windows' bootloader would be left intact should you need it. Linux will boot fine if its bootloader works (and doesn't somehow break your system again). A windows entry will be added to the Linux bootloader, but this may not work at first without a little fiddling since the bootloader might have to be configured to 'fool' Windows into believing it is on the first hard disk (Windows is very finicky). Even if you don't mess with the bootloader, disabling the master hard disk (the linux one) in the BIOS will let Windows boot up normally from the default Windows bootloader. I think this plan, while a little convoluted, has some advantages. First, you'll leave the Windows drive completely intact should something go horribly wrong. Second, when using Linux, you'll be able to access the Windows drive if you want to copy files off of it. Third, after a little fiddling with the bootloader, you won't have to use the BIOS to disable a drive in order to boot Windows. Fourth, the 160 gB drive is probably a better choice to be the master drive since its (probably) newer and faster.

All I know about IDE floppy drives is that there are options to support them in the Linux kernel....but I've never seen one. Any floppy drive you try to get will use a special 40 pin floppy cable. Most motherboards still have this connector on them, unless yours is one of those 'legacy-free' boards. Hope this helps.
 
Old 07-30-2004, 04:25 AM   #3
PDR60
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Location: Oakland, TN
Distribution: Debian, Kubuntu
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It sounds very much like you are experiencing a protected MBR. In the bios of most motherboards there is a setting to "virus" protect the MBR. All that does is not allow the MBR to be written to. Be sure to disable this. That way when Lilo goes to write to the MBR it will not be blocked by the Bios. Dual booting has been around the Linux world forever so its very doable. I have a How-To on my site that may be of some help.
What you have experienced is not very common. Most of the time its the Bios setting.
 
Old 07-30-2004, 09:14 AM   #4
snt
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You CAN choose which drive to install the bootloader on.
 
  


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