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I'm at the end of my rope!
I hate to sound so down. I have been trying to get a semblance of a decent experience from Mandrake and Red Hat (and Fedora) for a couple of years now. And, you know what? Nothing. No sound. Difficult file searches. Difficult file installations. Less than adequate antivirus software. Simple, rudimentary functions are difficult. I think I'm just fed up!
Don't get me wrong. I value the philosophy and the concept of collaboratively "free" software and the freedom from MS. But, why is this so difficult, so hard. I can't even get sound, even though I have a "supported" sound card. It's like watching silent movies. Is there a middle of the road to all of this? I've read the books, used the tutorials, joined the fora, struggled through the night. Is there some way that we can collectively find to make things easier? I'm tired, and I know that many others like me are too. |
Tie a knot in the rope and hang on!
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What are you using your system for? What sound card do you have? Have you tried Slackware? And an observation. I value the philosophy of "free" software, also. But no freedom ever comes without a price. Most of the documentation that comes with this "free" software is so esoteric that a newbie will have a very, very difficult time getting his system comparable to a well-installed and configured M$ system without some help along the way. I've been ready to throw my computers into the village street behind me, on more than one occasion, since installing a *nix distro in June. But, like you, apparently, I am desiring to be free from M$. In 1999 I tried RedHat, and found it too much to take. So I quit. In June of this past year I installed RedHat again, and in July I formatted that stuff right out of my computer. Some of the things I dislike so much about M$, I found in RedHat. It is a commercial distribution, you understand, and therefore they are out to attract the masses - not the few eccentric gurus who will jump to a distro like Debian, Gentoo, or LFS. I next tried Debian. It's a very fast and efficient system, but the packages that are written for Debian have tons of people working on them, and often one package's dependencies conflict with others. When I tried for 2 weeks to add KDE, and one couldn't because of conflicts between needed parts, I got rid of Debian. I switched to Slackware because of this - the people in LQ whose posts are the most helpful seem to use Slackware. I think the majority of the mods use Slackware. The forum with the best support for the distro seemed to be Slackware. Now that I've been using Slackware for a couple of months, I think those things are true. Comparatively, most of my posts for help when I used Debian were answered by people who didn't use Debian, and what worked on their system, a lot of times, wasn't the way things work on Debian. It's not easy to use open source software, and almost everyone writing documentation for it has been using *nix since the early 90's. They've forgotten most of what you and I need to learn just to install a proper system. I have decided to stop complaining about the esoteric documentation, and write some that is so verbose, if you can't follow it, you should return to the "don't think just point and click" world of Micro$loth. I'll post it on my website, as I rebuild it from within Slack. So, tie a knot in the end of your rope and hang on! What have you got to lose, except time? So, give it no more time than you can afford to give away, and you won't be as disappointed when you've spent a lot of time to learn something that doesn't work - yet. If you are a quitter, then quit! If you want to be free from Micro$loth's demonic cluthces, just keep plugging away. A couple of things I've done is to start a list. I enter things that I need to fix in Slack, things that I would like to be able to do in Slack, and things that I want to learn. And then I try to work on only one at a time, until it's either fixed, or my frustration level gets too high - at which time I switch to something else. And maybe you should get away from the commercial Linux distributions. Try Slackware - you'll learn more about Linux, and how your computer works, and compiling from source is so much more dependable than the RPM system! Like has been said before, "If you use RedHat, you learn about RedHat. If you use Slack, you learn Linux." Something like that, but it's true. Now, if you want some actual help with something, what is the one thing you'd like to get working right now? |
I feel your pain
I have tried to install Mandrake and RedHat Linux several times. I am installing on a separate hard drive on a system that supports Win 95, 98, 98SE, ME, NT4 and presumably XP (although I'm not about to try XP). No matter what I do, I cannot get ANY GUI system to come up and run. If I boot in Fail Safe mode, I get to the text prompt - which does me absolutley no good since I'm not a Unix geek. It seems to me if this whole "free" software thing is going to fly, it HAS to be made much more installable by a neophyte. :scratch:
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Re: I feel your pain
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When you get to the "text prompt" have you tried to login and type startx I'm not a Linux geek but a long stretch of the imagination, but I've almost got Slackware doing everything I need that I used Windoze for, so that soon I can format c:/q Windoze right off my hard drive. Actually, I only have to have Windoze for PGP and to print from PageMaker. I got PageMaker working under Wine in Slack, but I haven't figured out the printing yet. But...I will ;) |
Ok - you just exceeded my level of expertise - I can type 'startx' but why do I have to login? (And how do I?)
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^^^ This person sounds like me ^^^
Give him answers :p Because I need them, too. |
i'm surprised you guys have had problems with mandrake. i've installed it on a wide variety of systems, from low end machines with really old video cards nobody's ever heard of, to high-end P4 laptops with GeForce4 video card to older desktops with onboard video/sound and i've only had problems with sound one one of them (it is an AMD 500 on a motherboard which used to be running a Cyrix M-2 and has integrated sound). antivirus software shouldn't be that big of a deal, i read that there are something like 5 viruses for linux (compared to the zillions for windoze). file searches don't seem to be too difficult (except for the fact that you have to run them as root if you want to actually search every directory).
i'm playing with slackware now, and it is nice and stable, but much more complicated in that it seems you must to everything from the command line. i had to even get my mouse wheel working in the command line, which seems ridiculous. not only that, but all of the configuration files and everything else i'm always looking for isn't in the same place as many of the other linux distributions, so i have to relearn everything over again. slackware runs great, but i wouldn't say it's the greatest in terms of ease of use. it seems to me that there need to be specific standards for linux that most of the major distributions should comply with, so at least if you learn something in one distro it will hold true for them all. i think it's retarded that people are so hard-core that unless something is done via the command line then it's stupid. i'm all for the command line, but i think it's nice every once in a while to have a GUI to do stuff when i get tired of typing tar -zxvf or whatever. things like this make the OS more "user-friendly" as well for people who have never used them. i think it's great that we can compile everything, but i don't think we should have to. anyway, back to the point. i would recommend trying mandrake 9.2 or 9.1 (which is supposed to be more stable). if you've tried one and not the other, i would recommend trying them both. they at least seem easier to use than all the other distros. linux still has a long way to go before it will ever be "user-friendly" though. until then, don't give up, and don't get frustrated when you find a really kewl software package and then discover the only way to get it working is to compile the entire thing from the command line ;) |
My advice is : get help from documentation, or books. I am a senior in high-school, and my school offers linux classes, because the school uses a server-terminal interface with redhat 7.3. I was always interested in linux, since I've heard of it at least, and thus signed up for the course. We learned most of what we had to from a text book. It's simple, easy to read and it's called : "Linux, the textbook". If you want to learn about the text mode user interface, then that's the book to read. You'll understand most of what is forgotten in nowadays documentation, the essential part that won't make you a linux guru, but at least a linux user that understands what's going on. Even now, after having fiddled around with linux for a big bit I keep banging my head on my keyboard because of other issues. And you know what? once the pain fades away, I continue from where I stopped, and everytime I understand more about linux, and more of what's going on.
My first successdful kernel compilation took me almost three years to get it working! Still, I often have trouble getting a successful kernel installation once the compilation is done! It's because I'm stubborn, because I can't afford to pay for additional software, because I'm curious that I keep on with every problem that comes into my way! I don't let myself go down for more than 2 hours. After that, I get back to work where I stopped, and I'm often very close to the solution when I give up! So hold on, read more, and work on your problems bit by bit. Now if you need help, I'll help. Just give me problems, data about your hardware and configuration, and I'll try and walk you through the steps to understand how it works, and why it didn't work so you learn the method rather than just getting an answer. |
But - back to my earlier statement - if Linux is EVERY going to be the os of choice for the masses, it HAS to be more ::shudder:: 'User Friendly'. I have been programming computers for 43 years, including Windows Apps in C, and if I have to go learn another esoteric os JUST to get a GUI interface installed and running, then what do the newbies do? Answer: They buy and use WINDOWS! If MS can build a seamless install CD why can't someone do the same with Linux!
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Windows does not install seamlessly on all combinations of hardware - that is a fallacy. Just search for windows help forums and see how much hassle some hardware combinations can produce under Windows.
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The purpose of LQ is to offer a platform where people can share their knowledge. And it is, by Jeremy's defintion, "where Linux newbies come for help." The purpose of Linux, as stated by Linus Torvalds, was and is not to replace Windows, or any other operating system. It is an alternative choice. We are all free to choose it, and use it. Most of the Linux distributions are almost entirely supported and maintained by people whose sole interest has nothing whatsoever to do with making money from their work. Linux (the kernel) is actually very user friendly when compared to Microsoft's Windows operating systems - or Apple's Mac OS. The linux kernel source is open for each and every user to compile so that it becomes a perfect fit for his particular computer. This is impossible with every Windows platform on the market. Linux isn't designed to "be the OS of choice for the masses." Neither is Mac OS. That is the market strategy of Microsoft Windows. Open source software, such as the linux kernel, is designed for those computer enthusiasts who want to tune and tweak their systems to meet their peculiar and unique desires and requirements. It is not designed to please and placate the masses of users who want to simply pay some money and buy something that's already put together and works virtually the same for everyone. Just as there is a market for a tailor made suit, there is also a market for an off-the-rack department store brand. People have different tastes, and "Linux" is for the person of informed and discriminating taste: a connoisseur. Windows, on the other hand, is designed for the masses. Let them have it, and let us have Slackware Linux, or whatever our choice. So, you don't have to learn another esoteric OS - you are offered the option and afforded the privilege to do so. May we all do it graciously, and with gratitude. You ask us in this forum Quote:
Hat's off to Linus Torvalds, and all those who've contributed since! |
I find it impossible to believe any windows or Mac user can't boot from a Mandrake (or similar rpm distro) 9.2 cd, and with a few mouse clicks follow the gui install prompts, and wind up with a perfectly functioning system, with a nice kde desktop, many sophisicated apps, and complete control, that any windows user could navigate with no problem. The only possible problem must stem from a weird hardware conflict, which I also find virtually impossible to believe. Any recent rpm distro autodetects and configures everything effortlessly, on virtually any hardware combo out there. In fact, installing and configuring these distros is easier than any windows install I ever did. It's basically point and click usage, with the option to use the command line at any time. If you want to install Gentoo, that's another story, but if you can't install and use Mandrake, it's hard to believe you could even use a Mac. Even without understanding anything (as in "average windows/Mac user), Mandrake is perfectly accessable "as is."
If Sociologo will post a detailed list of the hardware, and what the specific problems are, I'm sure they can be fixed. wrc1944 |
Pardon the litany that follows in the next paragraph, but it may address some of the questions several of you have had.
P4, 2.80 GHz, 800 frontside bus, 512 MHz mem., 80Gig HD partitioned (Win XP Pro; Mandrake 9.2; Fedora; Sound: SoundMax Integrated Digital Audio i810 AC97. Have been using computers, both PC and Mainframe since 1982 (I used punch cards, card readers, and a mainframe to manipulate the data for my dissertation) . I use my system a very large amount of the time: for business, writing, statistical data analysis, no games, email, and have an avid interest in Linux. I read much of what is out there on Linux and specific distros and have used tutorials to supplement the reading. Moreover, I have installed and reinstalled operating systems more times than I wish to count or remember. I have used several versions of Mandrake and Red Hat and now I'm using what RH calls their "new" product, since they have abandoned Red Hat proper and moved their focus to the enterprise market. I've used DOS based computers with 5.25" discs, and Windows 3.1, 95, 98, 2000, XP Home and Pro. I also have a P3, 500 MHz system that is similarly partitioned. Well, I think that might be all. I think that both Mandrake and Fedora are installed properly on my system, as is WinXP Pro. What I am referring to in my initial posting is a feeling that, after 3 years, I have come to forgive myself for having. Please help me to explore this. I keep feeling like a brave maverick who has joined a liberating movement to challenge the Establishment, has become part of a community of believers and who has learned a lot in the process. Simultaneously, I find myself entrapped and struggling with minute "pick-sh-t" things like trying to get sound to come out of my system, trying to install a file, or some other minor matter, and spending hours, days, or weeks (by now years) doing it. This, only to feel both disappointed and discouraged and hopeful that in the next distro my problems will be solved. And what? Not! And, yes, I'm not one to think that Wins are problem-free or conflict free. I'm really pleased that people in the forum were willing to respond and showed interest in my concerns. I had the fantasy that there would be pursist who would put me down for feeling this way for offending Linuxism. But, none of that happened. I think, however, that there may be something for us to learn in paradox. I think that many of us have divided the world into Linux and MS. I also believe that this is counter-productive and that there may be something to learn from MS--even if it is how to improve on what they produce. Yes. This will require less stereotyping and less bifurcation, but I think that it will make for a better Linux product. I also think that bringing together the best of many distros with the best that Windows has to offer (and it does have some good features--despite what some may feel) may result in a true alternative to Windows that becomes available to the layperson. I agree with those of you who have said that later distros have enhanced and made easier such processes as installation, configuration, etc. My question is why are we still so "manual" in so many of our most basic functions? Software for the common user should be the vehicle to work and not the work itself. For others who are interested in innovation and development both the end and the means are different. I'll stop for now. P.S. By the way, because of the encouragement of some of you, I downloaded and am now using the Slax Live CD 3.024 (new 2004). It's really terrific and clearly more of what I'm thinking about (of, course I prefer a HD installation, but this is fine for learning right now). I've downloaded Slackware 9.1 and will try it out soon. Oh yes. I do have sound on Slax. |
Suggestions
Try knoppix or MEPIS, or PCLinuxOS, or whatever that Mandrake live evaluation spin-off is called (look at distrowatch.com). If it autodetects everything as you'd like, install it to the hard drive. Nice test drive.
Another suggestion is to find a Linux User Group in your area, hook up with them, find out if they have an installfest, and bring your computer there and have them get you started. You can also install linux as a windows app using a loopback filesystem installation...look at WinLinux2000. This way, all your hardware is already set up. Build up your confidence, then go for the more involved stuff. When your hardware gets old enough that you're looking for a new computer, look for pre-installed setups. |
And so I pose this question to you. Andy, you claim to have been programming computers for 43 years - why don't YOU build a seamless install CD with Linux?
I would LOVE to do this - now where do I start if I can't get Linux to install on my system? One of the reasons I'm even CONSIDERING Linux is so I can do things like that! BUT - with no Linux running in any mode that I can understand, I haven't a clue where to start. |
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You format that commercial Mandrake distribution out of your system, and get Slackware 9.1 (first 2 CD's). Email me your complete system specs (hardware) and I'll personally walk you through the Slack install. No problem. This will help me because I'm writing some documentation that a total beginner in *nix can understand. It will be long, but it won't leave out anything that's necessary, and it won't be so esoteric they can't comprehend the lingo. Then, we'll work together on the project. So, put up or shut up! |
Where to start..? Well, I've grown a interest in Linux about 6 months ago after reading some online articles (can't remember which ones though).. Anyway, the thought of 'free' OS software got my interest. So, one day I went to my local Barnes and Noble and found a book on Red Hat 8.0. I discovered that the book came with three CDs that at first thought were mere training or tutorial CDs. To my amazement, it was actually a full blown OS...
After fiddling with RH version of Linux, I came across http://www.distrowatch.com and discovered that there were in fact many Distros to choose from. So I started researching ones that sounded close to what I was looking for in a OS. The distros that I've tried are: Knoppix Gnoppix RH 8.0 Lycoris Debian woody Mandrake 9.1 I ended up sticking with Mandrake because of the similarities between them and RH8.0. Now, installing most of the distros (as a newbie) was no problem. On the other hand, I admit, getting some non-essential hardware to work was a different story. But help is a mere phone call...er... Internet call away! However, I have installed many versions of MS in the past, and have had problems with Hard disks, video cards, keyboards, processors, NICs, etc... and my thoughts were that it would be fixed in the next release. The problem usually was that instead of fixing the problems, the new version of MS created other problems with drivers that used to work in previous releases. One example that comes to mind is when you try and "upgrade" win98 to win2000. The installation actually says that some of my programs and hardware will not work, and that I have to get with the vendor for a fix.... WHAT? One of the greatest things about Linux is that you can find help on literally anything from people (sometimes even real-time). And also, if you upgrade Linux, it usually has a common appearance. (unlike win2000 to winXP) I guess basically what I'm trying to get at is that if your a newbie, try not to get frustrated. Go to a message board and post your problem. It not only helps relieve some stress by getting it in the open, but also you might get a friend in the process :D |
Ok - let me get a Slackware CD or two and we'll see what's what. AND, BTW - just how do I format Mandrake out? fdisk? MS Format?? Or is there something on the SLackware CD that will do this?
Toshiba DVD-ROM SD-R5002 Video - Radeon 7200 MS PS/2 Wheel Mouse Linksys LNE100TX(v5) Fast Ethernet Adapter Creative Sound Blaster 16 Plug and Play AMD-K6 3D processor 256MB ram Maxtor ATA 40GB drive |
Oops - one more question - where can I download Slackware? I went to the Slackware site and tried to download the ISO CD and was told that I'm not authorised to do this.
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cfdisk during the Slackware install to delete your Mandrake partitions - after logging in as Root you can type cfdisk to bring up the cfdisk menu - make sure you write the partition table to disk after deleting the relevant partitions - then reboot and use cfdisk again, this time to create your new Slack partitions. |
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Just for future reference, please post the link that said you've not authorized. Skyline is totally correct about how to format your Mandrake partitions. Since you've not got it installed, I'll assume you don't have any data in it's /home/<username> partition that you want to keep. Okay, how about your current OS? Is it Windows? Which version? How are you partitions setup? Do you want to access data read/write from Slackware and Windows? If so, you can't do that with the NTFS filesystem - you'll need a FAT32 partition. We should create that before we start installing Slack. For now, please answer these questions, and I'll look at your hardware in terms or support, and we'll go from there. :cool: |
Andy - I found MEPIS to be the most trouble free install of those I've tried - the fact you can run from the live cd and install (if you wish) after seeing that all your hardware is functioning. I use it daily.
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I have a Romtec switch, so the OLD OS is switched out of the loop - for the record, is is Win ME. When I am playing with the Linux install, I set my BIOS to boot from CD and have an OS-free system (well, except for whatever remnants of Linux are on the 40GB HD) SO - I have a whole disk to use for any install I do without concern for anything that may be on it from past attempts. What do you mean by "if you can use it, get it from BitTorrent"? I think BitTorrent was the one I tried to use and got the "YOu are not authorised message".
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Ok - I went to Slackware, Getslack - and it gives me many choices - 9.1-iso, 9.1 NON -iso - selecting iso, I can then choose iso.asc or iso.md5 - I have no idea what ones to pick - mainly because I don't know the significance of the acronyms - iso/asc/md5 etc - I assume iso is Intern Stds Org and asc is ASCII - but, what does that mean to me?
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Asc is the file extension used by PGP encrypted files. This is so you can verify that the file is from a trusted source. I personally never considered it necessary with an iso image file from a Linux distribution. MD5 was developed by Professor Ronald L. Rivest of MIT. What it does, to quote the executive summary of rfc1321, is: [The MD5 algorithm] takes as input a message of arbitrary length and produces as output a 128-bit "fingerprint" or "message digest" of the input. It is conjectured that it is computationally infeasible to produce two messages having the same message digest, or to produce any message having a given prespecified target message digest. The MD5 algorithm is intended for digital signature applications, where a large file must be "compressed" in a secure manner before being encrypted with a private (secret) key under a public-key cryptosystem such as RSA. In essence, MD5 is a way to verify data integrity, and is much more reliable than checksum and many other commonly used methods. Now, to answer your primary question. Get the two files labeled -> slackware-9.1-source-d1.iso slackware-9.1-source-d2.iso and you'll be good to go! |
I've been able to convert 2 of my home systems to Mandrake 9.2 and the difference between that and being a Dos/NT/Windoze nuts and bolts programmer/reverse engineer since DOS 1.1 is that when I went to Linux I had to do about 20 hours of learning curve all at once to fix the 5% that didn't work. Windows was gradual learning over time and probably took much more time over the years.
What I've learned is this: it's cheaper to just replace whatever components don't work with generic ones than try to fix driver problems under Linux--unless you're bored and out of work or a student (in which case you should try the National Bank of Dad). Now hear this: If windows wasn't way more tolerant of hardware and user bungles, my complete newbie father in law (70+) years old would NEVER have been able to use his system without calling me ONCE over the past year--and he does a LOT with it. OK--off the soapbox now. The thing that helped me was reading up on Unix, not Linux. Most Linux doc takes for granted that you learned Unix in college or something (seems to me anyway). I would love to volunteer to help make Linux documentation less sucky because one cannot expect people to RTFM if they cannot hope to Understand The F*ing Manuals. Here's my impression of how Linux doc looks to the unitiated: ---------------------------------------- To set up your blank is really simple, just do: fnoozle /r /f /x /v /u:1280 rfxqr -sdb -x -n -rw meps -h then do a make -q -x remember not to dissassociate the partition from the linked areas or your system will be hosed when you do this!!!! -------------------------------------- Oh that taught me a lot!!! I would re-write the documentation that does the complete secure encrypted setup (the complete paranoid absolute privacy install) , but the doc that's out there isn't something I can even get working yet--it's incomplete and cryptic. Anybody know anything about a collaborative Linux documentation project? Thanks folks. |
I see your problem now, rfxqr -sdb -x -n -rw needs to be rfxqr -sdb -X -n -rw (with a capital X), LOL :D Seriously though, go out and buy "Linux for Windows Administrators" by Mark Minasi and Dan York. Minasi translates Windows jargon into Linux jargon quite well. As to the collaborative documentation project you inquired about uh, well, it's called The Linux Documentation Project (go figure) ;) http://www.tldp.org/
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...uh well, the The Linux Documentation Project has instructions like this (from The Linux Sound HOWTO):
"Just the all time ``./configure - make - make install'' stuff. Do this for drivers, library and utilities." Huh? Was that an instruction? Did I sleep through a verb somewhere there? (In fact, the author liked this "instruction" so much that it is repeated on the same page in a different section.) So I welcome the efforts of Sick-O, Chinaman, and anyone else to create some Linux docs that don't assume either 1) you already know Linux, or 2) everything is working correctly. Now can we please drag this thread back to the topic of SOUND problems in MANDRAKE? That was pretty much the main complaint of Sociologo who started this. The Slackware installation tutorial obviously belongs in the Slackware distribution section. If someone knows for certain that sound is FUBAR in Mandrake 9.2 (as I am kind of suspecting after reading the various 'worked in 9.1, dead in 9.2' accounts) then that knowledge would certainly be welcome here and then some of us might be interested in some other distro. In the meantime, for those who are interested in actually helping some of us struggling with SOUND problems in MANDRAKE, may I suggest that you respond to any of the numerous problems already posted. May I humbly suggest looking at the remaining questions in the "Silent Night" thread (mine) or the "Xawtv + mandrake 9.2 = picture without sound" thread (VincentB's and mine too) or numerous others still unsolved. One final issue: Isn't it true that, if we get the correct device driver installed then if we knew what the correct parameters were for our particular sound board, we could edit them into the various config files (assuming those are described somewhere and don't vary too much by distro) and have working sound regardless of the distro we started with and therefore the distro question is just a red herring? I'm asking quite seriously and trying to understand. |
The Minasi book I already mentioned covers those basics. I imagine someone who had never used Windows would be equally perplexed by instructions like "run setup.exe". It kind of assumes you know how to open My Computer, double click the CD-ROM icon and then double click the setup.exe file.
All I can tell you at this point is that sound worked perfectly on my initial installation of Mandrake 9.2. I think you'll find other Linux distros to be even less accommodating to newbies, but feel free to try them and see for yourself. |
Sociologo try this hint. http://www.mail-archive.com/freevo-u.../msg04361.html
It might start you in the right direction. The alsa drivers for the i810 chipset from intell tend to be the fastest updated ones so your hardware should work. Remember that in linux which is close to but not quite Unix linux goes by the chipsets on the cards and hardware and not the nameplate. All I did was Google i810 and the forth entry gave me that one. |
Mandrake defaults all sound down to 0 from the install. Just adjust your Aumix app or Kmix app volume up and try getting sound from another game or something again.
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One example that comes to mind is when you try and "upgrade" win98 to win2000. The installation actually says that some of my programs and hardware will not work, and that I have to get with the vendor for a fix.... WHAT?
Well, THIS one I can answer <G> Win 2000 is NOT an upgrade for Win 98 - it is (effectively) Win NT 5! And Win NT will NOT allow many Win 98 programs to run because it is a protected-memory OS, where Win 98 only pretends to be. Many Win98 applications took advantage of this to enhance video performance (notably games) and thus Win NT will abort them to protect itself. |
back to the one who started this thread...
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(1) Who is the manufacturer and what is the model of your motherboard? I suspect you have the same onboard sound chip as is in this comp of mine. If so, all the sound support you need is available from ALSA (you need the first three files - driver, library, utilities) and the instructions for the Intel i810 sound are here In my Slackware 9.1 system with kernel 2.4.23, I can follow the ALSA instructions and get a proper install. However, you may have to do some things slightly different for Mandrake or Fedora. I've never used either one, so I couldn't say. (2) Since you have sound with the Slack Live-CD, in Slack, what is the output of # lspci (must be run as root) and $ cat /proc/modules (may be run as normal user). This should tell us what you have, and what you will need to get sound working in your other distros. |
Ok - so I downloaded the two Slackware images and copied them to CD's - and I now have two very nice coasters. They are NOT bootable! Next???
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Andy,
You don't seem to be taking the hint to move the Slackware installation tutorial over to the Slackware section. Hmmm. Anyway, as a result I actually get to provide an answer for a change. Instead of just copying the ISO files onto CDs you must use the software's "Burn Image" function. In Nero, this is in the File menu. Now back to sound in Mandrake. As posted previously in here I get some sound using ALSA drivers with my SBLive board. Taking a cue from this discussion that testing with another distro might help, I downloaded Knoppix,not Slax (because Slax has no boot from floppy option and my will not boot from CDROM), booted it and sound seems to work even in XAWTV. So now, Chinaman, here are my results of the commands you mentioned above: lspci 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (rev 03) 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX AGP bridge (rev 03) 00:04.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 02) 00:04.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) 00:04.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01) 00:04.3 Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 02) 00:09.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video Capture (rev 02) 00:09.1 Multimedia controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Audio Capture (rev 02) 00:0a.0 Unknown mass storage controller: Promise Technology, Inc. 20262 (rev 01) 00:0b.0 Ethernet controller: Macronix, Inc. [MXIC] MX987x5 (rev 25) 00:0d.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs SB Live! EMU10k1 (rev 05) 00:0d.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Live! MIDI/Game Port (rev 05) 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV5 [RIVA TNT2/TNT2 Pro] (rev 11) cat /proc/modules autofs4 8756 1 (autoclean) af_packet 13448 0 (autoclean) nls_iso8859-1 2876 0 (autoclean) nls_cp437 4380 0 (autoclean) agpgart 38296 0 (unused) emu10k1 61064 1 sound 55276 0 [emu10k1] ac97_codec 11916 0 [emu10k1] tulip 38752 1 crc32 2832 0 [tulip] emu10k1-gp 1224 0 (unused) gameport 1388 0 [emu10k1-gp] tuner 9408 1 (autoclean) msp3400 15596 1 (autoclean) bttv 95968 1 i2c-algo-bit 6888 1 [bttv] i2c-core 12100 0 [tuner msp3400 bttv i2c-algo-bit] soundcore 3428 7 [emu10k1 sound bttv] videodev 5472 3 [bttv] serial 52004 0 (autoclean) usb-uhci 21868 0 (unused) usbcore 57472 1 [usb-uhci] apm 9768 2 rtc 6940 0 (autoclean) cloop 9092 2 OK. So now I have this info from Knoppix which seems to be using OSS, how do I apply this to Mandrake using ALSA? |
let's move out of this thread
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Why don't you email me and let's move out of this thread. It's really not what Sociologo wanted to know, and maybe he will start responding with information so we can help him. Before you start installing Slackware, I have some questions about your hardware, anyway. If you don't want help specifically from me, that's okay, but if we continue it will have to be out of this thread. Also, as suugested, there is a forum called Slackware Installation with not one, but four awesome, knowledge moderators. |
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OK.. this guys have gonne nuts talking about GNU phylosophy.... and that's OK.... but I think you want to get the sound working, right? Let's see if I can help you on that very little thing.
With mandrake, there are some things you have to be careful about... don't know about other distributions. When you get your card working, it can be thrue a oss module or a alsa module. I personally use alsa modules... though I don't have a reason for it... just do it cause I can get it working without having to wear my hair off (oh... maybe it's because with alsa you can share the device among many sound processes ;)). :) You can change the module you are using by using harddrake2 (graphical) or using draksound (graphical or console based). Once you have set it up... you have gone half the way.... you got the device running.... now applications, they don't guess where the device is and so on.. at least, not in my case. If you are using xmms (just to name one bitchy [I mean... POPULAR... don't get me wrong :)] application) you have to configure it to use the right sound outlet.... so to speak. If you are using alsa, tell it to use the alsa output... if it's the OSS module... then choose the OSS output. Another thing I do is use esd. It works perfectly neatly... it (as a deamon) stands between the OSS module or ALSA module.... and the applications.... in my experience it doesn't matter which one you choose, esd will get the right one.. and then all applications going up thrue esd will actually sound (just remember to configure applications to use the right output). I have esd working for xmms, mplayer, xine, and I think even arts goes out through esd.... not sure though.... i hate midi with all my heart, therefore can't advice you on that subject. If you think I was helpful and want to ask things, feel free to email me.. i'll try to help as much as I can. |
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Just one more quick Windows comment - then I'll stop
Going from Win 98 to Win 2000 is more like going from Linux to AIX then RedHat to say Mandrake |
Sociologo,
Where are you at with your sound problem? |
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That's comparing apples to oranges, or should I dare to say apples to microsoft..? ;) |
Hi All:
I'm the one who started this thread. Well, on the advice of several of you, I have downloaded and installed Slackware 9.1. I got it so that it boots on LILO. Dandy. Perfect. Even works with System Commander 7. One problem. What do I do now? I have just installed Slackware 9.1 and it actually boots from LILO (this is after 8-10 trials). I am a complete Slacknewbie. What do I do now? It prompts me with "Dark....(i forget):#" and I enter "root" and "password". Then I don't know what to do? So, I try to be "cool" and I type "startx" (I saw this somewhere"), and I get black monitor syndrome. Nada! I tried evoking the 'man" only to get nothin that would help me. I wanted to go to KDE or Gnome, both of which are installed. So I tried "kdeinit" (I deduced this somehow). Nothing. Well, I won't bore you. I just want to get to a desktop where I can begin to work with Slackware, which I have heard and read is excellent. Please help this newly made Slacknewbie. Thanks. P.S. I understand that this is a Mandrake forum. However, it is Mandrake 9.2 that provided the impetus for me to arrive here. Thanks again. __________________ :confused: :confused: :confused: |
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Accept my apology for letting your thread get out of hand. Before you go any further, let's create you a normal user account. At the # prompt (the # let's you know you're logged in as root) type -> # adduser <name> where you don't use those <>symbols, but you enter the name you would like for your normal user account. Just press enter for everything except the password and you'll be okay. You do not want to login to Linux as root all the time. That is the first and most important thing that makes Linux so much more secure than Winders. No lesson now, just do it! And then reboot. You have a video problem with Slack. Do you know anything about your hardware? If not, then log back in as root (su and then your password) and do this -> # lspci and post the output here. Actually, that would be hard to do booting from one system to the other, so just let us know what video card you have. Let's start there, okay? |
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Thanks for asking, but nowhere with Mandrake. I'm still trying but getting weary. |
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Please don't apologize. Been around these parts for sometime and this is one of the most helpful experiences I have had in these forums. If there is such a thing as a Linux Community, this is actually a reflection of it. I'll try what you say. Thanks. By the way, Chinaman: What follows is what happened before your post. So, it does not reflect your advise yet: Well. I used the xf86config command. I must have done this 20 times--each time, I think, writing over the previous file. I kept getting errors even when I knew I had entered the correct information for my monitor (right out of the manufacturer's specifications--Dell 1800FP) and the correct video adapter NVIDIA GeForce and its specfications. Once, video did come on, but the graphics were huge--like 256's--so big that there was just enough space for a few words on the screen. I managed to find the logoff button, get out, reboot, and tried to config again. Nothing ever happened after that. Questions: Did I actually successfully overwrite the config file (Slack told me yes after I asked it to)? Is there a way to delete the current video setting from the file and try again on a clean slate? Should I reinstall Slack all over again? I'm finding out that Slack is not very friendly to those who have never made it's acquaintance before. Your advice would be appreciated. |
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So, which distribution are you currently using? I have decided to use Slackware 9.1 with kernel 2.4.23 only, until I learn Linux fairly well. During this time I am writing documentation which anybody should be able to follow, without a single step left out. A LQ guru would get totally bored reading it, but a newbie would be able to do it so long as they can print, read, and follow instructions. If you want help with Slackware, I'll do the best I can. However, I'm staying away from the commercial distributions, and therefore have no experience with RH or Mandy. If you're going to use Slack, download this driver NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-4496-pkg2.run and the README - Text Version file. Read the README file to see what you need to do, and post back if you need help installing the Nvidia driver. Until you install this driver, you may not be able to get a X window. |
Chinaman:
Sorry about the confusion. I am now trying to run Slack 9.1. I was using both Fedora and Mandrake and experiencing similar problems with both. That's what brought me to this forum. I had had enough. Some of the folks here (I think you were one) encouraged me to try Slack and I'm doing that now. So, Mandrake and Fedora "have left the building". I did as you said, and thanks to you I got to the KDE desktop. What is left now on Slack is: no sound; no internet connection (I have cable); printer is recognized only minimally, and still getting some small errors on opening KDE. For the sound, I tried "alsamixer", tried unmuting it, and then stored with "alsactl". About the internet, I'm not sure whether it is even setup. I think that the symptoms lead me to that conclusion. Thanks again, and sorry for the confusion. I was led here by Mandrake 9.2. I would love to get a copy of that so called "boring" documentation you speak about. I think it would interest me very much. You sound like you know quite a lot. |
Linux is not for the light of heart. You indeed have to have a background in computers. However, my daughter at the age of 8 was playing games. under linux followed the instruction for quake II and is running it like a champ.
Since then at the age of 10, she can reliably lock me out of her system. |
asalford
Thanks for your response....Although I have been a computer user since the days of the punch card, countersorter, and IBM PC/XT (I'm posted all of this in an earlier post) and don't consider myself as faint of heart and have a lot of technical skill, I have not been able to get one note or sound out of my speakers with Linux (Red Hat, Fedora, Mandrake, Slackware, and others) on either my old Dell Dimension 500 or my brand new 4600. This is not a problem that I face alone. My frustrations are shared by the many people who joined this thread and many who review Linux on professional websites. I don't see the purpose of Linux to be the "macho" alternative, but a potential open source widely distributed alterantive to Windows. So far, it fails on most counts.... |
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