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Old 11-11-2004, 01:07 AM   #16
opjose
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Yet you hang around... I'm honored.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 01:59 AM   #17
allforcarrie
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I cant even get my sound to work becuse i have an onboard Nforce chipset.... i dint have that problem in Fedora.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 06:51 AM   #18
aRTee
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I got Mandrakelinux 10.1 Community WITH all drivers (nvidia et al).

People getting the 3 cd download edition of CE or OE are getting the same thing, except for the package bugfixes between CE and OE.

There is a difference between a free download and buying a pack (clubmembership and downloading the drivers).
It should just be made clear that the free download is more cumbersome.

Which is the same for SUSE, but there you don't get to download isos of the final product.

I guess it's more a marketing / positioning problem than that they actually have to change the products they bring to the market.
 
Old 11-11-2004, 04:49 PM   #19
opjose
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I haven't looked at the Community CD's for 10.1.

Is there a directory called Drivers off the root containing ATI and NVIDIA drivers as well as slmodem?
 
Old 11-11-2004, 05:57 PM   #20
speel
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Quote:
Originally posted by equinox
ok so fedora is on the bleeding edge, im a mandrake club member... does fedora include smartlink modem drivers? do they include nvidia drivers? is there mp3 support in fedora? is there ntfs support in fedora? NO, guess if I had to install fedora i'd be stuck trying to get it to work *laughs*
hate to break it to ya but you can get that without being a club member
 
Old 11-12-2004, 04:52 AM   #21
equinox
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Quote:
hate to break it to ya but you can get that without being a club member
cute.
 
Old 11-12-2004, 06:51 AM   #22
Junior41180
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the last time i installed fedora, yes there was mp3 support, and yes there is ntfs support, you have to either recompile the kernel for support, or if i recall there is a workaround from having it in kernel support.


I agree with opjose on some of the points he brings up, alot of problems and post saying MDK is crap because <insert random problem> would be curbed if they did include working drivers and other stuff they include for the club members only. Yes i know how to install my ATI drivers without a problem, but some of the people that want to try linux for the very first time, and decide on MDK, do not necessarily know how. Will i ever support MDK, sure with a small one time donation. Do i think MDK is worth 66 bucks a year (minimum club membership price). Sorry i have other bills to pay.

and i feel they intentionally disable a few things so you can not possibly compile things for yourself. as I have tried numerous times with MDK to compile something, only to have it fail. Other distro's I've tried, no problems at all compiling. So I feel that they either make you use thier packages, or require you to go out and find what you need. and that alone will break a newb's spirit, or turn them off of MDK. I know for one they do not include the kernel sources in the install anymore, they did with 10.0 official, but not with 10.1 community. you have to learn how to do that yourself.

if anyone agree's with me on what i said, good, if not, ohh well, sorry you didn't like it.
 
Old 11-12-2004, 11:57 AM   #23
aRTee
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??? I'm sorry, I don't only disagree, some things you say are just downright wrong.

Don't know why you couldn't manage to compile things, I can.

FYI, only recently (more precisely, since 10.1 OE) did I start using the fully Mdk discs, before I always just used the downloadable discs, from 8.0 on (or so, 1999 timeframe). And without major problem I got things going, so around 8.2 I decided to 'tip the waiter' and become a member.
I have no problem with others not becoming a member since I realise not everyone can easily spare 60dollars (or worse, 60 euros) a year.

Please don't spread any fud that they intentionally disable things, they don't.
If you beg to differ, I'll call you on it. So then: show me the proof.

On this and other boards there are countless people that manage to compile and run anything on a standard non-clubmember downloaded Mandrake. Before claiming they sabotage things, please check your facts.

BTW why would a newbie not use Mdk packages? Most people don't want to fiddle with a computer, they just want to use it.

And please tell me which freely downloadable distro includes ATI and NVidia drivers?
 
Old 11-12-2004, 01:03 PM   #24
Junior41180
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Quote:
Originally posted by aRTee
??? I'm sorry, I don't only disagree, some things you say are just downright wrong.

Don't know why you couldn't manage to compile things, I can.

FYI, only recently (more precisely, since 10.1 OE) did I start using the fully Mdk discs, before I always just used the downloadable discs, from 8.0 on (or so, 1999 timeframe). And without major problem I got things going, so around 8.2 I decided to 'tip the waiter' and become a member.
I have no problem with others not becoming a member since I realise not everyone can easily spare 60dollars (or worse, 60 euros) a year.

Please don't spread any fud that they intentionally disable things, they don't.
If you beg to differ, I'll call you on it. So then: show me the proof.

On this and other boards there are countless people that manage to compile and run anything on a standard non-clubmember downloaded Mandrake. Before claiming they sabotage things, please check your facts.

BTW why would a newbie not use Mdk packages? Most people don't want to fiddle with a computer, they just want to use it.

And please tell me which freely downloadable distro includes ATI and NVidia drivers?
no i don't beg to differ, it was just my experience with MDK 10.0. I had a hell of a time getting ALSA to compile, and maybe one or two things else which i don't remember because it was a while back.

and I wasn't saying sabotage, there have been known software companies to disable certain features in the free versions, nothing wrong with that. and if i was just having a problem with my install, then i'll say i was wong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. No need to "call me on it". Just say I'm wrong. I'm a big boy, I can handle being corrected.

sheesh, people get way too defensive these days.

as for the ati, iirc, Gentoo has their own drivers in a package when you emerge ati-drivers, or should i say they inclued a driver, i don't know if it's a driver by them or not.. If i'm wrong, no need to call me on it. <-- thats a joke.
 
Old 11-12-2004, 01:50 PM   #25
opjose
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Yeah, there are no "compilation" issues with any of the releases.

Usually at installation time one of the developement package switches gets overlooked, causing a misconception.

That is one of the problems with the installer which does need addressing though.

There are posts here from people trying to run older applications on Mandrake, only to have them not work because they missed the compatibility libraries switch as well during the install.

It's a minor point, requiring only a minor fix to the installer, but it would go a long way to improving the perception.
 
Old 12-08-2004, 01:29 PM   #26
zarathustra674
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The rpms in the pclos repository are for pclos. I think Texstar said in the pclinuxonline forum that some rpms from (mandrake eg. contrib, plf) could mess up your pclos system. I'm assuming the reverse holds true. Although I have used pclos with stuff from contrib and plf and stuff from pclos with mandrake. Sometimes Id even force the packages like kde. The sledgehammer approach isn't the way to go.

On the other hand, I am careful when selecting packages on mandrake's installation, I do this manually with each new release and save the config to a floppy. I usually include development libs that I think will be needed to compile the few things I need to. And I have had pretty good luck getting things compiled. And for the most part mandrake has been one of, if not the easiest distro to get software working on. I haven't tried debian or gentoo.

Having said that, Right now Im sending this with slack 10 w/kde 3.3.1. Some stuff dont work in kde. Mainly artsd, it crashes like hell with juk and amarok crashes a bunch too. Granted I dont think it happened with the default kde. Ive tried Vector 5.0 SOHO alpha and its not too bad, I have many of the same problems in my slack with KDE 3.3.1 as I had with vector. Im having trouble getting somethings like xmame and gxmame going. But I havent really tried compiling these from source. If you dont wanna deal with source Mandy is the way to go. You can usually find the package you're looking for somewhere and a fairly recent version at that. I really have nothing to say about the Mandrake club deal, I know the company needs funding, and yet I hate knowing that Packages are out there for mandrake that I dont have access to. Keeping this in mind I came across a site called linuxcare or slackcare or something that charges a fee to download their packages. LIke 5.00 a month about the same as MDK club.

Oh and PCLOS_nv7 has built in nvidia support for in their freely downloadable cd as does mepis I think. Perhaps there are others too. Well people its too nice outside here to keep typing..
 
Old 12-09-2004, 02:34 PM   #27
greenmeanie
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i agree

why should anyone profit off of open source that everyone who has been working on?
what if those people now come forward and want to be paid for their services?



Quote:
Originally posted by opjose
If your criteria for selecting Mandrake Club is that you can obtain the drivers, you are IMHO feeding into a very ANTI Linux type situational exploit on the part of the companies.

Technically Mandrake is repackaging Nvidia's, ATI & 3rd party FREEWARE drivers to make people buy these from them.

e.g. oops, community is broken, please buy a membership to obtain the "official" release.

I'm sure Nvidia, ATI and the freeware authors would frown upon this practice. This is a lawsuit just waiting to happen.

This also creates a very negative experience for the newbie who's first brush with Mandrake is usually via a downloaded community edition.

Mandrake should if anything post these drivers freely for everyone and opt for other techniques for revenue, including their alert service (good idea), early availability, special "snap in" modules for server use (which THEY write).

IMHO they are missing the boat on the latter.

Last edited by greenmeanie; 12-09-2004 at 02:37 PM.
 
Old 12-09-2004, 02:45 PM   #28
opjose
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Quote:
why should anyone profit off of open source that everyone who has been working on?
what if those people now come forward and want to be paid for their services?
Yes that's exactly the point...
 
Old 12-09-2004, 03:13 PM   #29
carl0ski
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Um there is some real babble happening here mixed with a thick weave of ignorance.

Mandrake Community Edition is clearly labelled as a BETA edition

Mandrake Official is the stable release which is also freely downloadable. (3 cds without Nvidia ATI or adobe software)

Mandrake Official powerpack is 3 cds you pay for, is the same as public released for download with the hand full of proprietory programs added.
Powerpack+ same as above with a 4th cd of extra software including severs and optional media players.


The reason why NVIDIA ati and adobe software cannnot be included is
Mandrake and all software contained like all linux distros are provided with a GPL open source licence.
The proprietory software arent giving a GPL so arent permitted to be a added without a fee.

(no more complaining that they make us pay for the nvidia drivers, (they are conveniently giving an option to get the drivers with powerpack, they didnt have too). besides Buying Mandrake gets you club membership as well and you pay the workers a wage to keep building a better Mandrake.


One thing that does annoy me though is the legal problems surrounding patent licences and DVDs
so libdvdcss etc are not on any dvd/cd and found on internation Penguin Liberation Front mirror.
could be worse does redhat still not support MP3?


Mandrake does have open source NVidia drivers included so the nvidia card can do everything a normal nvidia driver minus OPENGL in say medal of honour.
direct3d games still worked for me in cedega winex

Last edited by carl0ski; 12-09-2004 at 03:20 PM.
 
Old 12-09-2004, 04:38 PM   #30
opjose
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Ignorance?

Babble?

Methinks not.


Mandrake is basically asking for payment for a repackaged NVIDIA or ATI driver, by doing this.

While this -IS- a convenience, by not including it in the public CD's or DVD's they effectively "forcing" payment for any and all who want this convenience as a come-on for the Powerpack purchase.

This is a violation of copyright as Mandrake is effectively charging for someone else's repackaged work without specific licensing or fees being paid back to the copyright holder.

"The proprietory software arent giving a GPL so arent permitted to be a added without a fee."


Mandrake does NOT pay fees to Nvidia or ATI, to include their drivers in the final package nor are fees paid to other vendors, Real, etc. The above is patently untrue!

Those open source "drivers" which you also cite are included by Mandrake but are not written by them as is the case with most of the included applications.


As I've previously stated, Mandrake is shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak by adopting this crazy tactic when it comes to drivers.

They ruin the newbie experience and make their distribution look more cumbersome than it actually is, to someone who decides to try things out via the download editions.


Their revenue model doesn't need this at all. The "club" could be better leveraged via other means. At the moment they are still sort of finding their way.


The think is, ultimately I sympathize with them and want them to succeed... but this driver business is stupidity.
 
  


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