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Old 10-09-2005, 10:55 AM   #1
Jiawen
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Angry Apt, RPM and general hell


I've recently been in a very severe dependency hell. I'm trying to get out. Please help!

RPMdrake has never been much help.

A few days ago, I got Synaptic working -- barely -- with one (1) source only. I've seen it mentioned a few times elsewhere: ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/linux/distribu....2/i586/media/
I only figured out how to actually phrase the sources.list file after seeing a nice little page called The Perfect Setup.

However, something went wrong (I don't know what) and Synaptic started crashing every time there were dependencies for a package. I've seen the same error elsewhere, but found no real help.

Finally, I tried uninstalling synaptic & apt and reinstalling newer versions. Well, that put me into another dependency hell. Apt requires a veeerrrrryyyyy long string of dependencies, regardless of version. The newer versions (which might solve the crashing problem) require things that either aren't available for Mandrake, or which require themselves (!). For example, synaptic-0.56 requires apt-libs-0.5.5cnc6-rb3. apt-libs-0.5.5cnc6-rb3 requires librpm.so.0, which is apparently only available in the rpm called "rpm". Well, I downloaded the only one I could find (for Mandrake 9.0), but when I update my sources, RPMdrake refuses to see it. I tried from the command line, which tells me that apparently rpm-4.0 (again, the only version I could find) requires libdb-I'm in a total, utter dependency hell.

Finding RPMs is taking forever, because http://rpm.pbone.net is apparently under a lot of load right now, and for whatever dumb reason, their search results are returned in reverse alphabetical order! That means that what I want is usually on page 20, or 15, or anyway five page reloads past the first. No wonder their servers are under a lot of load!

Not to mention, one of the things I installed while I had Synaptic going was Gnome 2.8. It's nicer overall, but the new MIME handling sucks. Before, when I double-clicked on an RPM, the root password prompt would come up automatically and then I'd be taken into RPMdrake. Now, there's only a message saying "You don't have root access, so you can only browse the packages" comes up. I see no way to make Gnome ask for the password and then take me into RPMdrake. (Yes, I've tried editing the MIME instructions to include "--root", but that seems to make no difference. It takes me into RPMdrake but forgets the package I'd clicked on, which means nothing happens.) This means I have to spend an extra several minutes, per package, updating my RPM database! Then, when I do that, I always get an error message saying "This source cannot be updated, and will be automatically stopped. Error: %$#%$#%" Yes, it actually just shows garbage! But it apparently does register the new RPMs. So, that's more wasted time! This multiples out to extra hours overall! This is ridiculous!

Does anyone have a way out? Please help with any of these problems!

Things were going so well until I tried to install new software...
 
Old 10-09-2005, 03:10 PM   #2
XavierP
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Mandrake has, for many years, had a tool called urpmi installed in it by default. Once you have set up the repositories, you would issue urpmi <someprogram> and it would install.

Go to Easy Urpmi to see how to set it all up.
 
Old 10-09-2005, 08:50 PM   #3
Jiawen
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I have URPMI installed and set up. I've been to Easy URPMI many, many, many times. But URPMI doesn't do anything about dependency problems. Thus, I'm still in dependency hell.
 
Old 10-10-2005, 08:44 PM   #4
tkedwards
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urpmi solves depedencies automatically by using packages from repositories, just like apt does. If you're having dependency problems then you're trying to install a package not made for Mandrake and replacing urpmi with apt (which does the same thing) will not help

Quote:
Well, I downloaded the only one I could find (for Mandrake 9.0), but when I update my sources, RPMdrake refuses to see it. I tried from the command line, which tells me that apparently rpm-4.0 (again, the only version I could find) requires libdb-I'm in a total, utter dependency hell.
Well that'll be the cause of your problems. You've replaced an important system component with one from a previous version.

Quote:
(Yes, I've tried editing the MIME instructions to include "--root", but that seems to make no difference. It takes me into RPMdrake but forgets the package I'd clicked on, which means nothing happens.) This means I have to spend an extra several minutes, per package, updating my RPM database! Then, when I do that, I always get an error message saying "This source cannot be updated, and will be automatically stopped. Error: %$#%$#%" Yes, it actually just shows garbage! But it apparently does register the new RPMs. So, that's more wasted time! This multiples out to extra hours overall! This is ridiculous!
Does urpmi work from the command line? Also post your /etc/urpmi/urpmi.cfg file

Quote:
Things were going so well until I tried to install new software...
If you'd stuck with the package repos at easyurpmi and used urpmi you'd be fine. Searching around the net for packages (the Windows way of installing software) doesn't work so well on Linux - you really need to stick to packages made for your distro.

What where you trying to install to start with that got dependency errors?
 
Old 10-11-2005, 03:11 AM   #5
Jiawen
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Quote:
Originally posted by tkedwards
[B]urpmi solves depedencies automatically by using packages from repositories, just like apt does. If you're having dependency problems then you're trying to install a package not made for Mandrake and replacing urpmi with apt (which does the same thing) will not help
In my experience, URPMI is far inferior to Apt (and especially Synaptic). Even with Synaptic crashing frequently, it does things that urpmi does not:
  • It appears to find packages that urpmi doesn't. For example, I'm currently trying to install griffith, a DVD cataloging program. (I've tried pretty much every DVD cataloging program out there, I think, that doesn't require setting up Apache and PHP.) Apt detects it and tells me what version is available and what I have installed; URPMI does none of that.
  • It actually resolves dependencies. In general, URPMI seems much more willing to say "This package cannot be installed due to missing package XYZ" than Synaptic is.
  • It gives information about packages. What a program is for, what its actual name is, etc. URPMI does none of this, so I have to guess whether the name of the app is "pygtk" or "pygtk2.0" or what, and about what the heck it's for.
  • It displays newer versions available for packages, and highlights packages that can be upgraded.
Those last two can basically be summed up by saying "URPMI is commandline, and Synaptic is GUI, and I need a GUI to function."
Quote:
Well that'll be the cause of your problems. You've replaced an important system component with one from a previous version.
What? RPMdrake showed no such package previously installed, and there was no other version of the package available on the sites I checked.
Quote:
Does urpmi work from the command line?
It works sometimes, but far from perfectly. See the above problems.
Quote:
Also post your /etc/urpmi/urpmi.cfg file
Inspired by your post, I did urpmi.removemedia -a and then added sources from Easy URPMI. Here's my current .cfg file:
Code:
# generated Tue Oct 11 01:45:10 2005
{
}

local_repository file://home/rachel/apps/01_big_repository {
  hdlist: hdlist.local_repository.cz
  list: list.local_repository
}

plf-free ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/plf/mandrake/free/10.1 {
  hdlist: hdlist.plf-free.cz
  key-ids: caba22ae
  list: list.plf-free
  with_hdlist: hdlist.cz
}

plf-nonfree ftp://ftp.planetmirror.com/pub/plf/m.../non-free/10.1 {
  hdlist: hdlist.plf-nonfree.cz
  key-ids: caba22ae
  list: list.plf-nonfree
  with_hdlist: hdlist.cz
}

updates ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/linux/distribu...1/main_updates {
  hdlist: hdlist.updates.cz
  key-ids: 22458a98
  list: list.updates
  update
  with_hdlist: media_info/hdlist.cz
}

main ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/linux/distribu...586/media/main {
  hdlist: hdlist.main.cz
  key-ids: 70771ff3
  with_hdlist: media_info/hdlist.cz
}

contrib ftp://ftp.lip6.fr/pub/linux/distribu.../media/contrib {
  hdlist: hdlist.contrib.cz
  key-ids: 78d019f5
  with_hdlist: media_info/hdlist.cz
}
Quote:
If you'd stuck with the package repos at easyurpmi and used urpmi you'd be fine. Searching around the net for packages (the Windows way of installing software) doesn't work so well on Linux - you really need to stick to packages made for your distro.
That's fine, except when Mandriva doesn't update the packages often enough or doesn't add certain packages at all. (Are there any working Mandriva packages for DVD collection management?)
Quote:
What where you trying to install to start with that got dependency errors?
The above DVD collection management packages. For example, when I try to install GCfilms, urpmi just hangs there. When I try to install it with Synaptic, it quickly finishes the process.

I also just had problems with ALSA, though, after upgrading to Gnome 2.8. Trying to upgrade through RPMdrake was a pain; when I selected xmms-alsa1.2.10, it simply said "The following package cannot be selected: xmms-alsa1.2.10". When I tried in Synaptic, it told me specifically what dependencies weren't being fulfilled. Synaptic is currently crashing when I hit "mark" on multiple upgrades, as my previous post mentioned, so I've had to go through and pick packages individually. Even so, it's been much more smooth that RPMdrake.

I didn't try URPMI with xmms-alsa (or I don't think I did -- it's getting hard to remember), but I doubt it would've been any different than my experience with RPMdrake.
 
Old 10-11-2005, 03:51 AM   #6
reddazz
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APT is not well supported on Mandriva because urpmi works just fine and saying its inferior to apt is wrong. There could be something broken on your system thats causing urpmi to mulfunction or maybe you just don't know much about using urpmi. If you don't know how to use urpmi properly then take a look at the tutorial at zebulon.org.uk. Some of the links maybe be broken but the urpmi guide is very useful. You also need to make sure that you have setup the main, contrib, updates and plf repos using the instructions at easyurpmi. Once your sources have been setup, you need to make sure that you update them regularly so that urpmi can find new packages. If after reading the urpmi tutorial, you still think urpmi is not doing its job properly then maybe you are better off using Debian or one of its derivatives because they support apt a lot better than most rpm based distros since its their native package management tool.

As for packages not being updated often, you will find that most ditros won't make major upgrades once they have released a stable version of their distro. They usually just concentrate on security updates. This is true if you use Mandriva, Suse, Debian, Ubuntu etc. Also you have to remember that not all distros will contain every opensource package that you may want to use. The best thing to do if you can't find the package that you want is to contact the distro maintainer or third party packagers and ask them to build a binary package for their distro. Its not guaranteed that they will build the package but its worth trying. You can obviously compile the packages from source as well.

Last edited by reddazz; 10-11-2005 at 04:01 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2005, 04:51 AM   #7
tkedwards
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Quote:
* It appears to find packages that urpmi doesn't. For example, I'm currently trying to install griffith, a DVD cataloging program. (I've tried pretty much every DVD cataloging program out there, I think, that doesn't require setting up Apache and PHP.) Apt detects it and tells me what version is available and what I have installed; URPMI does none of that.
If your Apt is finding packages that Urpmi isn't then Apt is pointing at a different repository. Setup to see the same repositories Apt and Urpmi will find the same things. You're confusing repositories with package management programs.

Quote:
* It actually resolves dependencies. In general, URPMI seems much more willing to say "This package cannot be installed due to missing package XYZ" than Synaptic is.
See point above - Apt and Urpmi look at the same Mandriva repostiories. If you've pointed Apt at a non-Mandriva repo (which would exaplain the difference in packages that you have available) this can cause a lot of problems with your system.

Quote:
* It gives information about packages. What a program is for, what its actual name is, etc. URPMI does none of this, so I have to guess whether the name of the app is "pygtk" or "pygtk2.0" or what, and about what the heck it's for.
The urpmi command doesn't (this is what the urpmq command is for) and nor does the apt-get command. Urpmi has a GUI (RPMDrake) in the Mandrake Control Centre that does give these details just like Synaptic does for Apt.

Quote:
* It displays newer versions available for packages, and highlights packages that can be upgraded.
Again see the points above about different repos (can you show is your sources list files for apt?) and urmi handles updates too.

Quote:
Those last two can basically be summed up by saying "URPMI is commandline, and Synaptic is GUI, and I need a GUI to function."
The Urpmi GUI is in the Mandrake Control Centre.

Quote:
What? RPMdrake showed no such package previously installed, and there was no other version of the package available on the sites I checked.
Maybe I misunderstood but you seemed to be saying that you replaced the RPM package for rpm itself with one from a previous version.


Quote:
Inspired by your post, I did urpmi.removemedia -a and then added sources from Easy URPMI. Here's my current .cfg file:

code:

# generated Tue Oct 11 01:45:10 2005
{
}

local_repository file://home/rachel/apps/01_big_repository {
hdlist: hdlist.local_repository.cz
list: list.local_repository
}
Just be careful what RPMs you have in that local_repository - if they're not made for Mandrake they can cause dependency errors, wether you install them w/ urpmi or apt.

Quote:
That's fine, except when Mandriva doesn't update the packages often enough or doesn't add certain packages at all. (Are there any working Mandriva packages for DVD collection management?)
GCfilms is in the contrib repository (at least it is on my 2005LE system). Unfortunately this is where Linux package management falls down a bit - it somethings not packaged you can have a hell of a time getting it installed. But Mandrake is like any other distro - they release once every so often (6 months or a year) and they don't update the versions of their packages except on each release. Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RHEL, Suse all do it this way.

Quote:
The above DVD collection management packages. For example, when I try to install GCfilms, urpmi just hangs there. When I try to install it with Synaptic, it quickly finishes the process.
Works fine on mine (just tested then) but if Synaptic works for you then use it - but with the Mandriva repos. It doesn't matter really which one you use as long as they're both pointing at the same repos.

Quote:
I also just had problems with ALSA, though, after upgrading to Gnome 2.8. Trying to upgrade through RPMdrake was a pain; when I selected xmms-alsa1.2.10, it simply said "The following package cannot be selected: xmms-alsa1.2.10". When I tried in Synaptic, it told me specifically what dependencies weren't being fulfilled. Synaptic is currently crashing when I hit "mark" on multiple upgrades, as my previous post mentioned, so I've had to go through and pick packages individually. Even so, it's been much more smooth that RPMdrake.

I didn't try URPMI with xmms-alsa (or I don't think I did -- it's getting hard to remember), but I doubt it would've been any different than my experience with RPMdrake.
xmms-alsa is the version on 2005LE (10.2) AFAICT. Trying to install this on 10.1 isn't really going to work very well wether you use urpmi or apt.
 
Old 10-15-2005, 05:20 PM   #8
Jiawen
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I more-or-less solved my problem by buying Mandriva 2006 LE. The repositories are now much more up to date and things are installing more smoothly. URPMI works as it should. I still prefer Synaptic, though, even over RPMdrake, because of the general GUI design of Synaptic.

Thanks for all the help, though!
 
Old 10-16-2005, 02:18 AM   #9
springshades
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The only way that you'll really have a huge upgrade in your ability to install up to date or slightly more obscure software is to use a debian unstable branch based distro. A good example is Mepis. Personally, I'm mainly a Mandriva user, but Mepis is my second choice (and it's the first one I'd recommend to a new user). Anyway, the debian unstable branch has much more up to date software and probably the largest package database any single distro has access to, something like 25000 packages using the default repositories and spending maybe 10-15 minutes looking for a couple more major ones to add. It uses Synaptic and works well with it since the distro is SUPPOSED to use apt-get. The packages in the debian unstable branch are also usually MORE stable than Mandriva rpms no matter what the name says (debian's truly unstable packages are all in the testing branch).

For Mandriva, the main thing you can do is add extra unofficial rpm repositories like thac's sources or search around rpm.pbone.net to find packages that only official members get or packages that are in the cooker or devel. I've also had problems with trying to find more up to date software, but it just requires more time in Mandriva than in some other distros.
 
Old 10-16-2005, 04:04 AM   #10
reddazz
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It doesn't really take a long time to find the latest software for Mandriva, justy add the cooker repos to your urpmi sources and thats it. The only problem is that when there is intense develpment going on, occassionally some things may break. This shouldn't be a problem if you only use a few packages from cooker.
 
Old 10-18-2005, 10:53 AM   #11
pingu
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Quote:
because urpmi works just fine and saying its inferior to apt is wrong
Nope. I tried Mandrake again, have heard urpmi did a good job - and Mandrake was my favourite distro up to 9.1. So I installed both Mandriva2005 and 2006, (on different partitions) same problem with both:
1) rpmdrake has no option to save selections.
2) Selecting an entire group - a very good feature! - causes rpmdrake to hang.
3) About one out of ten packages can't be marked because of dependencies
4) gpg-keys are always wrong - luckily I can choose to ignore that
5) Selected packages are downloaded, but installation stops because of even more dependencies.

I installed both versions via ftp, (ftp.sunet.se - Mandrakes own suggestion) and added only plf-free and non-free (ftp://plf.time4t.net/pub/plf/mandrake/free/10.2). (Actually, the first thing I did was to remove the "updates" since it blocked everything.)
What I want is a system for me and my kids, meaning: almost every game there is, every dvd/video/tv-app you could think of, everything that's nice for kids age 3 and up.. (that includes me! :-)
This results in approximately 3-5 GB of software (in Mepis 5.5 GB - took three days to select, one night to install - thank lord I could save the selections!)
urpmi might be usable when you just want one program, but when you want more it's useless. I completely agree with Jiawen:
Quote:
"URPMI is commandline, and Synaptic is GUI, and I need a GUI to function."
(I tried 'smart' as well, it's even worse.)

Well, that's the complaints. Now to the problem-solving:
I installed synaptic (using urpmi), in 2006 it doesn't function but in 2005 it works. But there aren't that many Mandrake-repos out there, and I'm definitely not going to try other repos. Actually, mandrake's repos do have most of the apps I want so what I really would want is a way to use these urpmi-repos in apt!
I know I might be a bit crazy, but if there only is a way to make apt read a hdlist-file instead of 'packages.gz'?
 
Old 10-18-2005, 07:22 PM   #12
tkedwards
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If you're getting dependency errors then its because of the repositories you've setup, not because urpmi is broken. If you only added the PLF-free and non-free repos then no wonder you get dependency errors - go and get main and contrib from http://easyurpmi.zarb.org. Also urpmi is no more 'command-line' than apt. Synaptic is a GUI frontend to apt, RPMdrake is a GUI frontend to urpmi.

If you want help w/ it post you /etc/urpmi/urpmi.cfg
 
Old 10-19-2005, 04:26 AM   #13
pingu
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Sorry, I wasn't quite clear about repos: Since I installed via ftp the main & contrib were already setup.
I also tried removing all repos and adding all from easyurpmi.zarb.org, same result. Tried another mirror as well, no difference.
Urpmi simply doesn't handle dependencies very well - installing one application works, but trying to install lots always results in errors ( meaning nothing is installed, urpmi doesn't only skip packages with errors but everything).
That's why I want to use apt, it handles dependencies very well, and if there's a problem with one package at least the problem-free are installed.
But I guess it's impossible to make apt read urpmi-repos, maybe I'll use apt to start with and try to get the rest with urpmi. It will take time of course, but I like Mandrake - I simply don't feel at home with Debian.

And as requested, here's my urpmi.cfg:
Code:
Main\ (ftp1) ftp://ftp.sunet.se//pub/Linux/distri...86//media/main {
  hdlist: hdlist.Main (ftp1).cz
  key-ids: 70771ff3
  with_hdlist: ../../media/media_info/hdlist_main.cz
}

Contrib\ (ftp2) ftp://ftp.sunet.se//pub/Linux/distri.../media/contrib {
  hdlist: hdlist.Contrib (ftp2).cz
  key-ids: 78d019f5
  with_hdlist: ../../media/media_info/hdlist_contrib.cz
}

Java\ Contrib\ (ftp3) ftp://ftp.sunet.se//pub/Linux/distri...media/jpackage {
  hdlist: hdlist.Java Contrib (ftp3).cz
  key-ids: c431416d
  with_hdlist: ../../media/media_info/hdlist_jpackage.cz
}

update_source ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distrib...2/main_updates {
  hdlist: hdlist.update_source.cz
  ignore
  key-ids: 22458a98
  list: list.update_source
  update
  with_hdlist: media_info/hdlist.cz
}

plf-free ftp://plf.time4t.net/pub/plf/mandrake/free/10.2 {
  hdlist: hdlist.plf-free.cz
  key-ids: caba22ae
  list: list.plf-free
  with_hdlist: hdlist.cz
}

plf-nonfree ftp://plf.time4t.net/pub/plf/mandrake/non-free/10.2 {
  hdlist: hdlist.plf-nonfree.cz
  key-ids: caba22ae
  list: list.plf-nonfree
  with_hdlist: hdlist.cz
}
[~]
[root@killbill rc5.d]#
I did try removing those double slashes(//pub/ //media/), no difference.
The other mirror tried was ftp://ftp.song.fi/
 
Old 10-19-2005, 04:55 AM   #14
reddazz
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Quote:
Originally posted by pingu
Nope. I tried Mandrake again, have heard urpmi did a good job - and Mandrake was my favourite distro up to 9.1. So I installed both Mandriva2005 and 2006, (on different partitions) same problem with both:
1) rpmdrake has no option to save selections.
2) Selecting an entire group - a very good feature! - causes rpmdrake to hang.
3) About one out of ten packages can't be marked because of dependencies
4) gpg-keys are always wrong - luckily I can choose to ignore that
5) Selected packages are downloaded, but installation stops because of even more dependencies.

I installed both versions via ftp, (ftp.sunet.se - Mandrakes own suggestion) and added only plf-free and non-free (ftp://plf.time4t.net/pub/plf/mandrake/free/10.2). (Actually, the first thing I did was to remove the "updates" since it blocked everything.)
What I want is a system for me and my kids, meaning: almost every game there is, every dvd/video/tv-app you could think of, everything that's nice for kids age 3 and up.. (that includes me! :-)
This results in approximately 3-5 GB of software (in Mepis 5.5 GB - took three days to select, one night to install - thank lord I could save the selections!)
urpmi might be usable when you just want one program, but when you want more it's useless. I completely agree with Jiawen: (I tried 'smart' as well, it's even worse.)

Well, that's the complaints. Now to the problem-solving:
I installed synaptic (using urpmi), in 2006 it doesn't function but in 2005 it works. But there aren't that many Mandrake-repos out there, and I'm definitely not going to try other repos. Actually, mandrake's repos do have most of the apps I want so what I really would want is a way to use these urpmi-repos in apt!
I know I might be a bit crazy, but if there only is a way to make apt read a hdlist-file instead of 'packages.gz'?
On my Mandriva installation,[list=1][*]rpmdrake does not hang whatsoever (I prefer the command line so don't use rpmdrake that much)[*]All packages I have tried installed fine without dependency problems. This works fine if you have the main, contrib, updates and plf repos[*]My gpg keys work fine unless I am using cooker repos or installing unsigned packages from contrib[/list=1]
My personal take on this is that you guys are not really experienced with troubleshooting urpmi (no offence intended) and this is causing your frustration.

What I suggest you do is remove all your urpmi sources and start from scratch. To remove all the sources do,
Code:
#urpmi.removemedia -a
You need to find yourself a fast mirror (most of the french and german ones are good and reliable) and then setup the main, contrib, plf and update sources from easyurpmi. Once your sources are setup, update them regularly so that urpmi knows where to find new packages and updates (this prevents dependency issues). To do this you do,
Code:
#urpmi.update -a
When you have updated your sources, you can update packages already installed on your system by doing,
Code:
#urpmi --auto-select --auto
Also take a look at zebulon.org.uk. Some links are broken but the info is still very useful.
 
Old 10-19-2005, 05:15 AM   #15
pingu
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Well, reddazz, I'm glad it works for you - maybe because you mainly use commandline?
I have the same experience - installing one or two apps from commandline works (that's how I installed apt: urpmi synaptic) but selecting 500MB or more in rpmdrake simply doesn't work.
You suggest me to remove all urpmi sources and start from scratch - well I've done that already! At least twice in both 2005 & 2006, using easyurpmi. And updated the sources several times.
 
  


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