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Old 08-05-2020, 01:21 AM   #1
Michael Uplawski
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Suggestion for the “Helpful Rating”.


I am not sure if I suggest a modification, though.

Good morning.

Even using external search engines, I cannot say if the helpful rating (not the reputation system) is currently discussed elsewhere and in consequence am unaware of imminent changes.

In short
I believe that many helpful ratings are in reality “sympathy ratings”. This is what I want to address in this post.
Example
While I have oftentimes, myself, rated a post as helpful when I would just have posted the same content, had I not been to lazy to do so, this morning it was obvious that the one good deed of the day was due to a pleasant experience which included some linguistic wit.
I don't know
but have you ideas to render helpful ratings more helpful or should the link be renamed to “I agree” and the function be separated from the reputation system? And/or permit only the original poster to trigger a “helpful rating”.

Last edited by Michael Uplawski; 08-06-2020 at 08:58 AM. Reason: -s
 
Old 08-05-2020, 03:05 AM   #2
ondoho
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The thought that the "Helpful rating" is being abused is not new, but how do you propose to change that, other than forking it out to two buttons? Then you'd just have people abusing both buttons.

IMO, there's only 1 way to deal with it: don't take forum "reputation" too seriously.
 
2 members found this post helpful.
Old 08-05-2020, 04:47 AM   #3
hazel
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If it's not my thread, I only use "Helpful" for posts that contain useful information which I think provides the answers the poster was looking for. But I'm well aware that a lot of people use it to mean "I agree."

In addition, there are a lot of posts of a "general" type which are not posted in the General Forum. The Slackware Forum in particular seems to attract them. Since there is no real question here that requires hard information to provide a solution, there is no proper use for the "Helpful" function (and the General Forum itself does not provide this option). But it's there in the other forums, so it gets misused.

It would be nice if someone (the OP or a moderator) could have that option removed on a per-thread basis in the case of threads for which it is not appropriate, but I doubt if the forum software would allow it.

Last edited by hazel; 08-05-2020 at 04:48 AM.
 
Old 08-05-2020, 06:50 AM   #4
Michael Uplawski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
It would be nice if someone (the OP or a moderator) could have that option removed on a per-thread basis in the case of threads for which it is not appropriate, but I doubt if the forum software would allow it.
Then I saw her post, now I'm a believer
No, I believe that there are many ways to put it and to improve the feature and this is just one more. The forum software is written in one way or other. The reason why I “suggest” or “discuss” rather than demand is that I have precisely no idea about what may be allowed or feasible. I am rather successful trying to (actively) forget all about Web-Applications, database-schemas, models, views and what I have ever understood about multi-tier Web-applications. But I remember that SQL, HTML and some programming language permit interventions like the one I suggest.

As for the argument that splitting a function in two would either double or just not diminish the potential for “abuse”, I'd like to differ. A swift click on a link, just because it is there, will be less probable, when there are two functions to choose from. On the other hand, if the “helpful” rating is disconnected from the reputation system, its impact will be reduced, too.

I once called the rating system and the helpful rating a purely decorative feature of LQ and I have not changed my mind. But as I use it, some useful effect would be welcome, else part of my own action is of purely decorative value.

Last edited by Michael Uplawski; 08-05-2020 at 08:24 AM. Reason: cooler phrasing
 
Old 08-06-2020, 06:44 AM   #5
syg00
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As I have stated several (er, umpteen) times in the past, I reckon the post count and rep should be done away with entirely.

jeremy appears to disagree. Guess who wins that discussion ...
 
Old 08-06-2020, 07:14 AM   #6
Mill J
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I also use other forums and the helpful rating system is far better then the like system. Now some of them are switching to a reaction score!? From what I gather, f@ceb00k started that crap.

I'm perfectly content just the way it is. I know you can disable the reputation system any time you want. So if you don't like it, don't use it.
 
Old 08-06-2020, 07:20 AM   #7
syg00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mill J View Post
I know you can disable the reputation system any time you want.
Be careful what you think you know.
 
Old 08-06-2020, 07:31 AM   #8
Mill J
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syg00 View Post
Be careful what you think you know.
Care to explain?
 
Old 08-06-2020, 08:30 AM   #9
Michael Uplawski
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I wished I could make the reputation system disappear just for the duration of this very discussion.

My OP and any suggested changes concern the Helpful Rating “Did you find this post helpful? Yes”. Maybe I am wrong assuming that everybody knows that you can give reputation points not by clicking on the Link “yes” but on the little balance to the left of the post. I suggested, above, to separate both functions. PSE do not mix them up now or I let you have all the responsibility for everything and have to declare myself external to - and unconcerned by this discussion.

Last edited by Michael Uplawski; 08-06-2020 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Kraut2English: III
 
Old 08-06-2020, 09:36 AM   #10
rtmistler
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It's been discussed at least a half million times. (exaggeration). I never really look much, but down below, there are similar threads if you roll down far enough, 2003, 2011, and 2018 are the dates shown.

I'm intrigued with some variety of people who have one or both of: a signature which talks about how to appreciate a solution/post, or have reputation enabled; where they discuss that they don't like the system. But some are not saying to not have a system, just that they'd like it to be changed.

Yes, any changes have been resisted or rejected. I'd say that (for me) it's not important enough to merit changing site code. Regarding changing of the site code, I don't know the details there, and I don't know the level of changes or maintenance which occur now. But this site is 20+ years old and has used this format for nearly that whole time, or at least for the last 9 years that I've been on it. Say you have a life, you started something (LQ) which got pretty big, and it's stood the test of time. But it has been 20 years and you're far from the person you were when it all started. Also presuming you were somewhere north or 20-25 when you started the site at the time. How much effort and risk would you be willing to take on, just to satisfy every little request? I don't know, I'm not Jeremy and haven't corresponded much with him on these topics, but if it were me, I'd lean towards reduction of risk and keeping stability. Plus ... what do you do with existing rep if you changed it all? For everyone who wants it gone, or wants it changed, there have got to be a few who like it, and also like what they have.

My repeated story/stance is that on Stack Overflow, I joined, asked a question, I DID search, and I felt my question was different, or not found. I got voted negative because one or more people declared it to be a dupe, I couldn't even respond because I was in negative rep! How nice! Great welcome for a newbie, eh? Something we struggle with here too.

Anyways, I feel rep is fine, or "anything positive" is fine. Anything intended to vote down or criticize, would be bad. And I do realize no one is saying that.

I also agree that people give rep to show support, for things like arguments. (Just look at some energetic Slackware threads where a lot of fighting has occurred, you see 9, 10, 11 helpful clicks there. I don't feel you see that much elsewhere. And a lot of those are especially when people get off great zingers.)

So, .... it's what you make of it people. At least in my humble opinion.
 
Old 08-06-2020, 09:54 AM   #11
Michael Uplawski
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I have not even talked about the “reputation system”.

But go ahead... none is *my* thread and all you do is probably good in some way.
 
Old 08-06-2020, 08:04 PM   #12
frankbell
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I must be in the minority.

I don't pay a lot of attention to ratings, but I do rather like having a mechanism for feedback, imperfect though it may be, as to which of my posts others have found to be "helpful."
 
Old 08-06-2020, 11:38 PM   #13
Michael Uplawski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
I must be in the minority.
We are.

Quote:
I don't pay a lot of attention to ratings, but I do rather like having a mechanism for feedback, imperfect though it may be, as to which of my posts others have found to be "helpful."
My reasons to activate the reputation for my own posts have been explained in an older thread. But addressing a function of LQ, I have to generalize. And again. My first post in this thread is the initial one and from the start, I tried to impose that the “helpful rating” and the reputation system be seen as two distinct functions. As I find the single unique link below the post too limited a choice, also joining reputation and helpful rating is an error in my opinion.

But people seem to be unwilling to try this distinction. I can let the issue rest.

There is anyway too much work ahead for me to further follow the thread.

Cheerio.
Ω
 
Old 08-07-2020, 04:10 AM   #14
hazel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Uplawski View Post
I tried to impose that the “helpful rating” and the reputation system be seen as two distinct functions. As I find the single unique link below the post too limited a choice, also joining reputation and helpful rating is an error in my opinion.
But why should anyone be given a high reputation on a forum like this except for giving helpful advice? Perhaps Michael would like to tell us what else should earn reputation points?
 
Old 08-08-2020, 06:34 AM   #15
cynwulf
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Reputation system is equivalent to a "social media" style "like"... that's how it's always been here and how it will remain. It almost always has no bearing whatsoever on the technical merit of a post or it's author. For example, you could get 10 likes from fans for gushing about how great a Linux distro is in it's subforum and nothing at all for providing a working solution for someone who preferred to reinstall. It's an individugal thing, but best ignored by all except those nurturing and watering their green bars. Post #2 just about sums it up. You can't really turn it off, only hide it, but you can just forget it exists and worry about important stuff instead.
 
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