RHEL forum should be removed

Hello moderators

I am posting this thread with all due respect and I don't mean to insult any senior members.

I have been getting really very odd replies on different threads for the support of RHEL.
Any user of RHEL who is asking question or posting his trouble instead of helping them why is everyone busy pushing them for RHN support and CentOS?
I mean no one knows the reason why that particular guy is using RHEL and is he having a RHN support or not?

The first intention of every member should be to solve the issue in every possible way if its possible but what if everyone is replying on their first post that if you are using RHEL then you should contact the RHN support?

Is it correct?
and if this is so then the Redhat Forum should be removed and the moderators should mention some where that no RHEL user is allowed to post here as they should be contacting red hat support as they are paying for it.

I am trying to help someone and if I am told that I am misleading the OP by helping him and he should get RHN support than I think I am wasting my and his time.

I believe this blog was made with a soul intention to help linux users whether using any sort of distro and contacting RHN support should be the last option if the issue comes out of a bus and the members are unable to solve it.

Please don't take in a wrong way this is just a request to get your attention towards a very important topic which I guess most of us are either missing or ignoring

and I really love this thread as the amount of knowledge I have gained here I know I wouldn't have got any where else.

So thank you all

I've seen moderators warn people who simply point out to "use RHN support". So in my opinion when you see posts which only state contact RHN support without offering a solution or advice to the problem then you should simply report the post like you would any spam or derogatory comment.

SAM

Yes this is the reason I am requesting if it so then red hat forum should not be here.

I believe first try to resolve and if nothing seems to be working then contact RHN support but is this the way to reply that if you are not paying you should not be using??

Originally Posted by sag47 I've seen moderators warn people who simply point out to "use RHN support". So in my opinion when you see posts which only state contact RHN support without offering a solution or advice to the problem then you should simply report the post like you would any spam or derogatory comment.

You should always feel free to address it yourself if you judge contacting Red Hat support is not the only option. Other than that it would IMHO be the correct approach as I very much like to keep a tab on such things.

Originally Posted by deep27ak I believe first try to resolve and if nothing seems to be working then contact RHN support but is this the way to reply that if you are not paying you should not be using??

From a day-today administration point of view using RHEL is no different than using any other Linux distribution. As long as people use RHEL the RHEL way then questions about installing, configuring or running RHEL that require just general knowledge of running and troubleshooting Linux should be OK.

As What is the difference between Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux? points out the users who most benefit from running RHEL are companies and institutions that can only run Linux with commercial Service Level Agreement support. So questions about installing or updating software without valid license itself, questions about RHEL-specific additions to the kernel or userland that can't be answered here, questions about specific RHEL products, the commerce side of things should, after consideration, have the suggestion added to contact Red Hat support. Some examples may help:
- a question like this is IMHO correctly referred to RHEL support because it concerns RHN. (We can only thank the OP for sharing his findings with us.)
- a question like this is IMHO correctly referred to RHEL support because this requires a valid license.
- a question like this is IMHO correctly referred to RHEL support because it concerns the configuration and troubleshooting of a Red Hat-specific product.

* That should not mean members should automagically refer a fellow member to Red Hat support without assessing the actual problem. Even then IMHO we should feel free to help the OP diagnose and troubleshoot the problem to the point it becomes clear the only suggested cause of action is to contact Red Hat support.

In general I agree with most of the above. However ...
When people steal a copy of RHEL (from work ?) and install it at home then run into problems, I have no sympathy at all. Particularly new Linux users.

RH invest time and resources (that have to be paid for) developing their product(s) - a lot of their efforts get merged back into the mainline. I have no problem with them earning a buck for it - they also sponsor Linux events (similar for SuSE of course).

keep the RHEL thread but maybe add /Cent/SL to it
now I for one have been guilty of ONLY posting " see red hat knowledge base "

I have not done any numbers on it but a guess would be that about 90+% of the RHEL questions are posted by someone that
DOSE NOT have a license

and if someone posts a question and really dose NOT know how to use a terminal and posts that
"i just installed RHEL5.0 , now what"
i WILL recommend the stranded $249 / year contract


There is a very good NEED for distros like RHEL and Debian with a VERY long life
but if one is going to use them on a HOME system ( or on a laptop or "netbook")then , well you BETTER know how to
and if you do not know how them BUY THE CONTRACT !
if you DO know how then buy the $49 one

Originally Posted by syg00 In general I agree with most of the above. However ... When people steal a copy of RHEL (from work ?) and install it at home then run into problems, I have no sympathy at all. Particularly new Linux users. RH invest time and resources (that have to be paid for) developing their product(s) - a lot of their efforts get merged back into the mainline. I have no problem with them earning a buck for it - they also sponsor Linux events (similar for SuSE of course).

isnt RHEL a free download that use can "eval" for a short period, and then after that if you dont buy support you dont get support/updates/etc....? but this doesnt stop you from continuing to use it and updating it by other methods. is this still the case with RHEL.

Originally Posted by deep27ak Hello moderators I am posting this thread with all due respect and I don't mean to insult any senior members. I have been getting really very odd replies on different threads for the support of RHEL. Any user of RHEL who is asking question or posting his trouble instead of helping them why is everyone busy pushing them for RHN support and CentOS? I mean no one knows the reason why that particular guy is using RHEL and is he having a RHN support or not?

The reason is simple: RHEL is a commercial, PAID FOR distro. Yes, you can load it and you get 30 days trial (including access to the RHN), but after that, you need to pay. If you're not going to, CentOS is the way to go, since it's nearly identical. Why? As has been pointed out (and there's nothing 'odd' about this), RHEL that's not been paid for WILL NOT get updates/patches/bugfixes/security fixes/etc.. If you're running a server-class distro, why on earth would you want to run it with buggy software, and then NOT be able to apply a fix? Load CentOS, it's free, and you get those things. Load RHEL, and you need to PAY...simple.

The first intention of every member should be to solve the issue in every possible way if its possible but what if everyone is replying on their first post that if you are using RHEL then you should contact the RHN support? Is it correct? and if this is so then the Redhat Forum should be removed and the moderators should mention some where that no RHEL user is allowed to post here as they should be contacting red hat support as they are paying for it.

Most folks will try to answer a question, but again, re-read my first point. If a user is trying to update a package, and that package is only available via YUM/online repositories (like kernel updates, etc.), and they're using RHEL that they're not paying for, then they won't be able to load it WITHOUT calling RHEL support, and getting registered. Asking for help configuring a service is a simple issue, and is normally answered, but again, if you're using a distro you SHOULD be paying for, then you should PAY for it or not use it.

I am trying to help someone and if I am told that I am misleading the OP by helping him and he should get RHN support than I think I am wasting my and his time. I believe this blog was made with a soul intention to help linux users whether using any sort of distro and contacting RHN support should be the last option if the issue comes out of a bus and the members are unable to solve it.

The thread you're talking about, you DID mislead the OP. Had nothing to do with RHEL, but the fact that the thread was about FTP server, and you were answering about a CLIENT.

And RHEL support shouldn't be the 'last option', it should be the FIRST. Users pay for it, and RHEL can answer questions far more quickly than anyone here can, in most cases. Not sure why, when you could get a question answered in a few minutes, you'd prefer a user to wait hours (maybe days), for someone to come to a public forum and post what (sometimes), is a guess, or ask more questions to be able to figure out what's going on.

There are a lot of assumptions in this discussion (the user isn't paying, etc.). I have RedHat at work and I've asked questions about it on LQ before. The issue isn't security patches or updates but rather simply helping a person who has a problem on RedHat with something other than, "go ask RHN support". Like all Linux I'm allowed to choose where I get my support and sometimes I choose both RedHat and the LQ community to get a variety of responses to my problems (if I need it).

There shouldn't be anything wrong with that and looking down upon it is not very wise. I certainly don't condone illegal downloads and have refused to help people when I find that out but for legitimate users there shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by sag47 There are a lot of assumptions in this discussion (the user isn't paying, etc.). I have RedHat at work and I've asked questions about it on LQ before. The issue isn't security patches or updates but rather simply helping a person who has a problem on RedHat with something other than, "go ask RHN support". Like all Linux I'm allowed to choose where I get my support and sometimes I choose both RedHat and the LQ community to get a variety of responses to my problems (if I need it).

I don't assume anything, honestly, but merely say that paid-for support should be used. If someone says they're paying, but want a second opinion/whatever, that's fine. I do TRY to answer questions no matter what, unless they are specifically RHN related. Like "I can't upgrade my RHEL system...it says I'm not registered".

In my honest opinion, though, if someone is using RHEL/SLES without paying for them, that's a bad move. You lose the ability to get those updates/patches, and are then better off running a community-distro like CentOS instead. Long life span, and no need to pay, and it's still as robust as most of the pay-for distros. Sometimes, folks need to have this pointed out to them, since they may think that CentOS isn't as good, or that RHEL will get them something special. That 'special' thing is the paid-for support, tested patches, certified hardware/software compatibility, etc. Without paying, you may as well go 'free'.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with that and looking down upon it is not very wise. I certainly don't condone illegal downloads and have refused to help people when I find that out but for legitimate users there shouldn't be a problem.

I don't look down on anyone, merely question the wisdom of doing it. I certainly won't help someone 'get around' getting patches from RedHat when they haven't paid, but will help someone configure something.

Originally Posted by TB0ne I don't assume anything, honestly, but merely say that paid-for support should be used. If someone says they're paying, but want a second opinion/whatever, that's fine. I do TRY to answer questions no matter what, unless they are specifically RHN related. Like "I can't upgrade my RHEL system...it says I'm not registered".

Yes and this is what I was talking about now I can't go on and search threads where several members have posted this but I have seen most of the places where members don't post a solution instead they ask OP to contact RHN and get resistered. I mean what is the need to post in that thread then, If you can't help then no need to be rude by saying "If you are not paying then no need to use it"

Originally Posted by TB0ne In my honest opinion, though, if someone is using RHEL/SLES without paying for them, that's a bad move. You lose the ability to get those updates/patches, and are then better off running a community-distro like CentOS instead. Long life span, and no need to pay, and it's still as robust as most of the pay-for distros. Sometimes, folks need to have this pointed out to them, since they may think that CentOS isn't as good, or that RHEL will get them something special. That 'special' thing is the paid-for support, tested patches, certified hardware/software compatibility, etc. Without paying, you may as well go 'free'.

I mean if that is so then the redhat should stop giving its distro to those who don't have the license. I don't get the point of what's wrong if a home user downloads and tries to learn when there is a way around to work with it. If you say that I won't get patches and updates but always i get all the missing updates on internet free of cost on different websites. Now a home user will not get a RHN support if he is using RHEL. It is my choice if I want to use redhat or centOS and I believe if you can't help then no need to post aimlessly pointing towards support. If someone is trying to help then you are saying that I am misleading as if I can't show him the other way when there is one?

Originally Posted by TB0ne I don't look down on anyone, merely question the wisdom of doing it. I certainly won't help someone 'get around' getting patches from RedHat when they haven't paid, but will help someone configure something.

If you can't then I don't get the point of stopping others from helping? Yes, you can give your opinion that one can also go for CentOs but not in this manner If you don't pay then don't use?

Originally Posted by TB0ne The reason is simple: RHEL is a commercial, PAID FOR distro. Yes, you can load it and you get 30 days trial (including access to the RHN), but after that, you need to pay. If you're not going to, CentOS is the way to go, since it's nearly identical. Why? As has been pointed out (and there's nothing 'odd' about this), RHEL that's not been paid for WILL NOT get updates/patches/bugfixes/security fixes/etc.. If you're running a server-class distro, why on earth would you want to run it with buggy software, and then NOT be able to apply a fix? Load CentOS, it's free, and you get those things. Load RHEL, and you need to PAY...simple.

Very well but what if I want to use RHEl for installing my oracle apps and practice on them which doesnot supports fedora and CentOS. That is completely my choice which distro to use. I guess you are suppose to give opinion and not stop others from helping.

Originally Posted by TB0ne Most folks will try to answer a question, but again, re-read my first point. If a user is trying to update a package, and that package is only available via YUM/online repositories (like kernel updates, etc.), and they're using RHEL that they're not paying for, then they won't be able to load it WITHOUT calling RHEL support, and getting registered. Asking for help configuring a service is a simple issue, and is normally answered, but again, if you're using a distro you SHOULD be paying for, then you should PAY for it or not use it.

This is not about this one post I replied I have been seeing this from last many days and on several posts where aimlessly members are sending the users for support and I guess what you have posted here...this is the reason i think RHEl forum should be closed because when we can't pay for it we shouldn't be using it???
so kindly posting this post on 1000s of posts please ask moderators to close Redhat thread. I think you should agree with me on this one?

Originally Posted by TB0ne The thread you're talking about, you DID mislead the OP. Had nothing to do with RHEL, but the fact that the thread was about FTP server, and you were answering about a CLIENT. And RHEL support shouldn't be the 'last option', it should be the FIRST. Users pay for it, and RHEL can answer questions far more quickly than anyone here can, in most cases. Not sure why, when you could get a question answered in a few minutes, you'd prefer a user to wait hours (maybe days), for someone to come to a public forum and post what (sometimes), is a guess, or ask more questions to be able to figure out what's going on.

I can't believe you are still pointing the arrow on me and I don't get it simply how I misleaded the Op by just saying use Redhat dvd source to download the package of ftp server of redhat. If one is not suppose to use those rms then why is redhat giving those rpms with the download source?
I mean if you are suppose to download then why there is a different ftp server from redhat to download packages of all versions of distro?

Originally Posted by TB0ne Had nothing to do with RHEL

If that is so then why were you sending him to support and asking me not give such help?
I just told him a simple solution to install ftp server and practice?

Originally Posted by TB0ne First and foremost, do not EVER request ANYTHING on my behalf. You do not speak for me now, or will you ever, do you understand that? Second, I DID answer the OP's question, which was directing them to set up the local DVD as a repository, or installing the RPM manually (and I even provided the command to do so).

I am really sorry for that.


and I think even I was trying to do the same
kindly lookback and check whether giving command was your first priority or RHN support?

Originally Posted by deep27ak I am really sorry for that. and I think even I was trying to do the same kindly lookback and check whether giving command was your first priority or RHN support?

I think you both made your point so why continue?

This cross posting is getting a bit confusing and, in my opinion, takes away from what was originally a decent point. In order to resolve your and TB0ne's fighting like an old married couple I have contacted RedHat support. I explicitly asked them if using RHEL without a support package, with the understanding you will not receive updates, is illegal.

When I receive a reply I will post what their response was. Then we can bury this age old hot topic.

The point is very simple

If any one is trying to help, let them do if it works then very well and if we fail to do then there is red hat support ofcourse.
Because every time it is not about updates and patches some times it is also about errors which I think can be fixed without support.

Let the thread be apart I am using as a source but from now on I am surely going to follow your advice of reporting to moderators where the solution could have been different then support.

and I would also ask moderators to make a different forum from Redhat as now we have a big difference between RHEL and Centos as far as support is concerned.