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Old 08-28-2010, 02:23 AM   #271
druuna
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Hi,

I've asked this one before, but it got probably snowed under by all the other questions, so I'll ask again:

Is it desirable to have the reputation icon shown on the first post?

I can't think of a good reason. It could be (mis?)used to give someone some negative reputation because s/he doesn't know how to ask a question, which I personally don't think is right (s/he needs to be told, but not this way).
 
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:37 AM   #272
linuxlover.chaitanya
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I agree on this. And non native english speakers would be affected more for it could be difficult for them to explain what they are trying to say in a way everyone could understand. And it would not be right to negative mark their reputation.

Last edited by linuxlover.chaitanya; 08-28-2010 at 04:13 AM. Reason: typo
 
Old 08-28-2010, 02:51 AM   #273
TheIndependentAquarius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druuna View Post
Is it desirable to have the reputation icon shown on the first post?
IMHO It will be helpful if some credit is given to the OP for providing full details in his question ! He will get inspired to ask questions in a more better way !

Quote:
Originally Posted by druuna View Post
It could be (mis?)used to give someone some negative reputation because s/he doesn't know how to ask a question, which I personally don't think is right (s/he needs to be told, but not this way).
I don't think so !

**Many** times I seen senior members reminding the OP's to:

1. Not to write in sms language.
2. To provide system details.
3. Not to ask homework questions without showing any efforts.
4. Not to create duplicate threads.
5. Not to hijack other people's threads.
6. Not to create titles like "Urgent, help".

But still that's of NO use since I've seen the same OP's repeating the same mistakes again and again, thus ignoring the advises.

If the OP is given a down reputation on the first go (with a proper comment explaining the reasons) he'll be very careful next time !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxlover.chaitanya View Post
I agree on this. And non native english speakers would be affected more for it could be difficult for them to explain what they are trying to say in a way everyone could understand. And it would be right to negative mark their reputation.
The question is not about English, it is about manners and common sense. Read the above listed points.

I have not seen anyone thrashing the OP for incorrect English since every one knows this is an international community.

Last edited by TheIndependentAquarius; 08-28-2010 at 03:22 AM. Reason: added 6th point
 
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:12 AM   #274
EricTRA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxlover.chaitanya View Post
I agree on this. And non native english speakers would be affected more for it could be difficult for them to explain what they are trying to say in a way everyone could understand. And it would be right to negative mark their reputation.
Hi Chaitanya,

I hope I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying it's OK to 'negative rep' someone for not being able to express themselves in English? At least that's how I read your post, both of us being non English native speakers.

We're all here to help out others in my opinion and if someone who's not English native speaking, then we should try and help them regardless and not act in a condescending way with a negative rep.

Kind regards,

Eric
 
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:18 AM   #275
djsmiley2k
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Jeremy, I think I've found a bug.

If you click the "yes" then you can't click the add rep button, however it works in reverse (by works, you first click the rep icon then click the Yes and it changes to - "thank you for rating this post" - I dont know if it increases the rep twice.)

Cheers.

Last edited by djsmiley2k; 08-28-2010 at 04:46 AM.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 03:26 AM   #276
druuna
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by anishakaul View Post
IMHO It will be helpful if some credit is given to the OP for providing full details in his question ! He will get inspired to ask questions in a more better way !
Giving people credit for doing the correct thing? I don't think so.

It is in their own interest to formulate the question in such a way that we can answer him/her. If they don't they will either not get an answer at all or one that will not solve their specific problem....... Lesson learned.

I'm not talking about the language barrier that exists for (some of) the people that have a different native language.

Quote:
**Many** times I seen senior members reminding the OP's to:

1. Not to write in sms language.
2. To provide system details.
3. Not to ask homework questions without showing any efforts.
4. Not to create duplicate threads.
5. Not to hijack other people's threads.

But still that's of NO use since I've seen the same OP's repeating the same mistakes again and again, thus ignoring the advises.

If the OP is given a down reputation on the first go (with a proper comment explaining the reasons) he'll be very careful next time !!!
I don't think this is in the line of LQ, being a board that is extremely kind to newbies. There are people that are rude, don't follow the etiquette/rules and ignore advise, but giving them a bad rep on their first post because they are not (yet) used to the way things are done here at LQ is a bad idea.

Most newbies won't know about the reputation system and it might take a while before they find out that someone has given him a (bad) rep. It might even take longer before s/he finds out why this was done to him/her. Posting a message and telling them why (in a polite way) will make sure s/he understands....

I still don't get this "one click" behaviour. Very impersonal, easy and detached. If we are talking about being social and polite: What is wrong with posting a message?

Last edited by druuna; 09-01-2010 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Fixed spelling
 
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:30 AM   #277
mcnalu
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I like the sound of the reputation system.

I was going to hit the Thanks button on Jeremy's post about it but well, um, er...
 
Old 08-28-2010, 03:54 AM   #278
TheIndependentAquarius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druuna View Post
Hi,

Giving people credit for doing the correct thing? I don't think so.

It is in their own interest to formulate the question in such a way that we can answer him/her. If they don't they will either not get an answer at all or one that will not solve their specific problem....... Lesson learned.

...

If we are talking about being social and polite: What is wrong with posting a message?
Who said there is something wrong with telling the OP his faults in a polite post ?

and if they learned their lesson that way, life would have been easier for the other members here.

Of course their threads don't get solved properly because of the missing information in OP but I don't think they understand what wrong they have done, that's why they go on repeating the same mistakes again and again.

If some senior member reminds the OP about the mentioned faults in his posts, the OP simply ignores them thinking the senior member is a fool/rude whatever and just moves on !

Now here comes the reputation system, if he see a RED dot or whatever Jeremy decides to use for a bad post, on his post, it will be shameful for him !
And since jeremy said that he'll be working on showing the Reputation points per post on the post itself,

The OP will be forced to think WHY is there a negative point on his post !

I have seen on LinuxExchange.org similar technique being used !!
 
Old 08-28-2010, 03:54 AM   #279
djsmiley2k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTRA View Post
Hi Chaitanya,

I hope I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying it's OK to 'negative rep' someone for not being able to express themselves in English? At least that's how I read your post, both of us being non English native speakers.

We're all here to help out others in my opinion and if someone who's not English native speaking, then we should try and help them regardless and not act in a condescending way with a negative rep.

Kind regards,

Eric
If someone doesn't understand english, I think it'd be very unlikely that they choose to type in SMS style text instead. I think this is what Chaitanya is trying to discourage, and hopefully it'd work like this. However, like all things, its something that would need monitoring anyway.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 04:08 AM   #280
EricTRA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djsmiley2k View Post
If someone doesn't understand english, I think it'd be very unlikely that they choose to type in SMS style text instead. I think this is what Chaitanya is trying to discourage, and hopefully it'd work like this. However, like all things, its something that would need monitoring anyway.
Hi,

I agree that a post should be in a descent form so that we all can understand without looking at a wiki page or something to translate. But I don't agree that we should 'negative rep' them. Like druuna pointed out, what's wrong with just posting a correct and polite answer to motivate the OP to change/improve his text?

Language is a barrier that can easily be overcome if both parties put in some effort in my opinion and should not be connected in any way to the reputation system. I think that for what concerns the reputation system we should just stick with the technical side of a post, nothing more and nothing less.

Kind regards,

Eric
 
Old 08-28-2010, 04:12 AM   #281
druuna
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by anishakaul View Post
Who said there is something wrong with telling the OP his faults in a polite post ?
I never said that their was anything wrong with it, on the contrary! The problem I'm trying to describe is the ease of this "one click" system. Why take the time and effort to write a message when you can simply click on one icon?

That is what I truly dislike! If one chooses to go for the impersonal (none social) "one click" option, one cannot expect the other person to be social or give a damn.....

That is why I'm against the rep icon showing up in the first post (or the rep/thanks/helpful system in general, but that is another discussion altogether). If the OP did something wrong in any way, be polite/social and tell him/her so by posting a polite message.

Quote:
If some senior member reminds the OP about the mentioned faults in his posts, the OP simply ignores them thinking the senior member is a fool/rude whatever and just moves on !

Now here comes the reputation system, if he see a RED dot or whatever Jeremy decides to use for a bad post, on his post, it will be shameful for him !
And since jeremy said that he'll be working on showing the Reputation points per post on the post itself,

The OP will be forced to think WHY is there a negative point on his post !
I really doubt if the OP will think twice about that.

A lot of the newbies are on LQ for a short time: Ask one or two questions, (hopefully) get a quick answer and are never seen again. Those that are rude (once or more then once) won't care either. Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast.....

Quote:
I have seen on LinuxExchange.org similar technique being used !!
I wonder if comparing LQ with other related boards is a smart thing to do. LQ sets itself apart from those other boards by being very user friendly and I think we should take that as base for any improvements that are implemented.
 
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:18 AM   #282
linuxlover.chaitanya
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Okay Eric, that was a typo. I would never want a non native english speaker to be negatively rep'd just because he/she was not conversant with english enough. But that would be again be incorrect if OP tries to use SMS language just because he/she is not well versed in english.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 04:21 AM   #283
TheIndependentAquarius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druuna View Post
Hi,

I never said that their was anything wrong with it, on the contrary! The problem I'm trying to describe is the ease of this "one click" system. Why take the time and effort to write a message when you can simply click on one icon?

That is what I truly dislike! If one chooses to go for the impersonal (none social) "one click" option, one cannot expect the other person to be social or give a damn.....
Remember the "thanks" system ? AFAIK Senior members and members mostly used to write a thanks note after clicking the button !

Only the Senior members are allowed to post a negative reputation. I really don't think that a long time LQ member would be rude/lazy enough to simply mark the post as non-helpful or whatever and move on !

Quote:
Originally Posted by druuna View Post
I wonder if comparing LQ with other related boards is a smart thing to do. LQ sets itself apart from those other boards by being very user friendly and I think we should take that as base for any improvements that are implemented.
LinuxExchange is a sister concern of LQ created by Jeremy and even then I was not comparing it with LQ, I said so just because I have registered there and seen the feature being used properly .

Last edited by TheIndependentAquarius; 08-30-2010 at 01:58 AM. Reason: typo
 
Old 08-28-2010, 04:21 AM   #284
linuxlover.chaitanya
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Quote:
A lot of the newbies are on LQ for a short time: Ask one or two questions, (hopefully) get a quick answer and are never seen again
That should become very clear if you see how many memberships are there on LQ and how many are actually currently active.
 
Old 08-28-2010, 04:21 AM   #285
EricTRA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anishakaul View Post
**Many** times I seen senior members reminding the OP's to:

1. Not to write in sms language.
2. To provide system details.
3. Not to ask homework questions without showing any efforts.
4. Not to create duplicate threads.
5. Not to hijack other people's threads.
6. Not to create titles like "Urgent, help".

But still that's of NO use since I've seen the same OP's repeating the same mistakes again and again, thus ignoring the advises.

If the OP is given a down reputation on the first go (with a proper comment explaining the reasons) he'll be very careful next time !!!
Hello Anisha,

I disagree with you on this part. I don't think we should use the reputation system as a 'penalty system' for the newbies and such. If they learn from the start how they should post a question by us indicating in a polite way in our reply how that's done, then that's great. If they don't I'm sure their problems will not get solved very fast since very little people will reply to them.

As stated in my previous post, I believe that it's best to just dedicate the reputation system to the technical part as long as there's no separation level in the reputation given. By separation level I mean, rep for technicality, for completeness, for helpfullness, and so on. For now it's just one number so I propose not to abuse that.

Kind regards,

Eric
 
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