Kali Linux sticky thread?

Please count me out of the "around 10(?) participants in this thread".
I can no longer see a lot of the posts in this thread.

>"Thoughts?": I like: "We have no plans to add a '<...>' Forum."
Plus, I wouldn't want LQ become the haven for "rubbish".
http://reddit.com/r/linux4noobs is what I'd suggest.

Latest Kali supports this: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...0/#post5797116

Here's another case and point of what I was saying before, and even the same (or almost) situation;

https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...ux-4175620210/

1) The OP clearly has NO idea what there doing.
2) While their thread title is a lot better; they don't mention ANYTHING about what research (if any) they've done beforehand.
3) IMHO, they are NOT using Kali for it's intended purposes.

And the Newbie forum see's another absolutely pointless Kali post....

There's no way I'll be answering any question in any Kali forum (here or elsewhere - or even participating in it), sorry, count me out!

Forget it...

Edit:

Maybe just the mod's should deal with Kali posts and everyone else can focus on the meaningful questions/threads instead.

Folks let's not be aggressively rude to those new members.

Give them the sticky or our FAQ but don't be short with them please.

Originally Posted by rtmistler Folks let's not be aggressively rude to those new members. Give them the sticky or our FAQ but don't be short with them please.

surely being short is not the same as being rude?
i have seen you admonishing in one other thread; i didn't see anything rude, or agressive, or even remotely agressively rude in it.

my policy:
if op is short, so am i.
i'm tired of writing well-researched essays and getting less-than-10-word sentences in reply.
if op shows some effort, so do i.

I think we're getting away from the REAL issue here, being:

That Kali's own developers say that it's NOT intended for "general" use, full stop, period! That's it! So, given that, what is the point in puppy-walking someone though using a system that they:

* Do not have the skills and experience to use.
* Are not meant to using because the above FACT.
* As pointed out by other members, that they therefore ARE going to have problems with, when using it for UNINTENDED purposes!

Well, there's absolutely ZERO point!

I'm sorry but, I'm more than HAPPY to try and help where your talking about a distro that IS suitable, which in Kali's case is, ANY OTHER DISTRO!

And I think that jlinkels has said it the best in another thread, and I can't think of a better way to put, so here it is:

Originally Posted by jlinkels The typical Kali Newbie comes here as if LQ is some human Google. And never logs back in after the first or second post. So let's point them to the Kali sticky and that is it. No matter how much time you put in, they simply do not have the experience level that anything you say make sense. After some time and effort (and maybe they don't put any time and effort in it anyway) they will discover Kali was the wrong point to start of Linux. And without experience they cannot do the cracking they intended. On a recent thread someone posted: "we are willing to help discovering Linux once you have chosen a normal distro". I am in favor of adding this comment to the sticky. jlinkels

Look if other members want to sit there and waste their own time, then it's your time but don't expect that I'm also going to waste my time puppy-walking someone though using Kali to play their game, watch youtube, etc - or with pointless Kali questions in general.

And if the OP clearly has not read the documentation, clearly does NOT have the skills to use Kali FOR it's intended purposes, then what is the bloody point in trying to help them??

If they also cannot help themselves to boot, then there is nothing that anyone else can do to help them.

I will always much prefer to try and help someone when they ARE also trying to help themselves AND are using a suitable distro, for the purposes they are using Linux for. And I am more than happy to try and help those then do wish to do that instead.

I'm not trying to be rude to anyone but, it doesn't bother me what people what to think about that, sorry.

And just to re-enforce the point I'm making here:

Originally Posted by Kali's own developers Is Kali Linux Right For You? As the distribution’s developers, you might expect us to recommend that everyone should be using Kali Linux. The fact of the matter is, however, that Kali is a Linux distribution specifically geared towards professional penetration testers and security specialists, and given its unique nature, it is NOT a recommended distribution if you’re unfamiliar with Linux or are looking for a general-purpose Linux desktop distribution for development, web design, gaming, etc. Even for experienced Linux users, Kali can pose some challenges. Although Kali is an open source project, it’s not a wide-open source project, for reasons of security. The development team is small and trusted, packages in the repositories are signed both by the individual committer and the team, and — importantly — the set of upstream repositories from which updates and new packages are drawn is very small. Adding repositories to your software sources which have not been tested by the Kali Linux development team is a good way to cause problems on your system.

Wanna read it from Kali's own website?

https://docs.kali.org/introduction/s...use-kali-linux

Happy reading!

Originally Posted by rtmistler Folks let's not be aggressively rude to those new members. Give them the sticky or our FAQ but don't be short with them please.

what is really hard:
if someone posts something which is undoubtedly meaningless, contains no question, no request (just a grammatically incorrect half-statement) - so this is impolite, rude, unpolished. This kind of poster will hardly accept the usual answer: please give better description, more info, details - and will find the respond rude if that contains a few links to sticky pages or FAQs or similar (instead of the expected perfect solution).

I think we (regular users) can only report that, but cannot handle it any (other) way.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 1) The OP clearly has NO idea what there doing.[etc]

This has been established multiple times in this thread. You can't help those who won't help themselves - they didn't read the documentation at the distro's own home page, they didn't read the sticky threads on the distro's own forums, they probably didn't search the forum here, they most likely didn't read your posts and there's only a fool's hope of them ever reading your sticky.

The user in the thread you linked to totally (and predictably) ignored the chastisers and links to the sticky: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...7/#post5796884

The chastisement and vitriol will continue to be ignored. You can't expect new users, whatever their ability, intent or perceived error, to respond well to the type of posts seen in that thread.

I'm sorry you've taken my posts personally, it isn't personal, I have no wish to antagonise you, or others, but as this is a feedback thread, I'm just posting my opinion as you are just posting yours. If Jeremy wants to step in and tell me that my opinions are no longer valid, as the thread somehow "expired" on the date you've posted, then so be it.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 There's no way I'll be answering any question in any Kali forum (here or elsewhere - or even participating in it), sorry, count me out!

I'd expect as much, considering you're not a kali user. But I have to agree with you here and with the consensus, that a Kali forum would be a bad idea as it would be effectively giving a licence to leaches to come here for unofficial "hand holding" support. For me, the kali project people's refusal to offer basic support is a dereliction and forums such as this one should not have to pick up the slack.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 Maybe just the mod's should deal with Kali posts and everyone else can focus on the meaningful questions/threads instead.

You opposed banning kali discussion earlier, yet here you're suggesting moderator intervention? My point all along here has been pretty much that this is an unsolvable problem and this is pretty much as good as it gets. You've spent a lot of time and energy on this, all directed at those who make pretty much zero effort beyond burning the disc and installing.

For me, it's acceptable to ban it or at the very least, adopt the same stance as the Kali project forums: no basic support. The policy needs to come from LQ - or not. There is no point in users burning themselves out over this.

@cynwulf,

I never wanted it to be personal, that's why I didn't want an argument with you. As this helps none of us.

I have never tried to say that your not entitled your opinion, I would not have started this thread if I was not interested in other members opinions about it.

All I was saying was that we are past the point of arguing about weather the sticky should be their or not and the fact that it has helped to at least some extent. If you have a different opinions then I'm not denying you nor anyone else your or their opinions.

So once again and this is the last reply I make to you about these points, why keep arguing about it??

You have made yourself clear and hopefully so have I, can we please leave at that?

As it is up to LQ now NOT us.

I was only offering a suggestion about mod's stepping in, which they already have, at least a couple of times now.

The horse is dead cynwulf that's it, you have your opinion others have different opinions, yours doesn't override other people's opinions. You clearly don't like the idea of even having the sticky and cannot seem to handle people disagreeing with you, well I'm really sorry cynwulf, but they do disagree, just get over it and move on. As I'm not going to change mine just because you want me to, any more than others are.

I'm not going to continue with this argument. If you would like to make your own suggestions to Jeremy then nobody is stopping you. If you would like to discuss with others, nobody is denying you that either.

Over and out.

Perhaps everyone should respond to every Kali thread by pasting the quote from Kali's website about whom the system is and is not for.

Why? A sticky is useful in that a few people might read it, but in all honesty, most, if not all, of the people posting will not read it. If they do read it, they will not care. Politeness is heavily stressed on this forum, but there must be a limit. Otherwise people will give themselves stress trying to politely convince cracker wanna-bes Kali is not suitable for them.

I think we (including maybe myself) have been looking at this the wrong way, let me explain:

The mod's already have the power to close threads that are non-compliant with LQ policy. And jefro's comment here got me thinking, if it's clear that a Kali post is not going to be able to be answered and/or a question like "my gui is broken/does not start" then once a link to the sticky is provided, the member reports the post and then, a mod steps in with a warning like the following:

This thread does not comply with LQ policy and is being closed for that reason.

and close the thread and all other pointless Kali posts/threads, that are deemed by mod's/LQ to be non-compliant. This has the added benefit of stopping the pile-on afterwards as well as discouraging would-be Kali posters, that see Kali threads being closed.

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 You clearly don't like the idea of even having the sticky and cannot seem to handle people disagreeing with you, well I'm really sorry cynwulf, but they do disagree, just get over it and move on. As I'm not going to change mine just because you want me to, any more than others are.

You see, you make statements like this and you expect me to somehow drop it...

I expect the irony of your statement is lost on you? Again we're back to post #68...

I'm posting my opinion, not expecting others to agree universally. That's what you would call putting words in someone's mouth. If such things are not open to debate, then I don't see the point in such threads.

Throughout this thread, you've wanted to stop those from disagreeing with you from posting or "arguing", as if my posts are somehow a threat to your own special approach to this perceived problem. And your approach is as follows:

1) Maintain a sticky thread to advise prospective or new users that "kali is not for them".
2) Invade every thread seeking help with kali and post your link to the sticky - even though you don't use kali
3) Accompany the link with an obnoxiously worded, snarky post

But at this point I am done. Thank you for reading.

Originally Posted by cynwulf ... 2) Invade every thread seeking help with kali and post your link to the sticky - even though you don't use kali ...

You have no idea what systems I use cynwulf, and your above post just proves to me what I was thinking all along about why your so keen on posting your opinions over and over and over again in this thread. Thanks for the confirming that for me.

And it's not personal...

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 You clearly don't like the idea of even having the sticky and cannot seem to handle people disagreeing with you, well I'm really sorry cynwulf, but they do disagree, just get over it and move on. As I'm not going to change mine just because you want me to, any more than others are.

Originally Posted by cynwulf You see, you make statements like this and you expect me to somehow drop it... I expect the irony of your statement is lost on you? Again we're back to post #68...

cynwulf, you're not the only one getting this treatment.
the 2nd time now i've been told by bsjsb001 that I "must be a pretty miserable person, that's all I can say", the last time because i dared point out the flaws in his praise for LQ...
the funniest (and most annoying) thing is that bsbsbs000 believes that they are taking the moral high ground here, because obviously everyone who dares to disagree with them must be a negative nancy...or something.

ondoho, What you were saying/implying is uttrtly FALSE and I'm now going to be the second to REPORT you today. And that's after standing UP FOR YOU HERE. And that's no problem either.

But I guess by saying that "I'm taking the moral high ground".

Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 I think we (including maybe myself) have been looking at this the wrong way, let me explain: The mod's already have the power to close threads that are non-compliant with LQ policy. And jefro's comment here got me thinking, if it's clear that a Kali post is not going to be able to be answered and/or a question like "my gui is broken/does not start" then once a link to the sticky is provided, the member reports the post and then, a mod steps in with a warning like the following: and close the thread and all other pointless Kali posts/threads, that are deemed by mod's/LQ to be non-compliant. This has the added benefit of stopping the pile-on afterwards as well as discouraging would-be Kali posters, that see Kali threads being closed.

For every annoying Kali thread, I see someone who is interested in and wants to become involved in Linux. I would far prefer to see some solution that puts the posters of such threads "on the right path" rather than alienates them from the operating system altogether.

As someone else wisely pointed out, the perspectives of the Kaliers and ourselves are different. We see a host of non-informed Kali threads, an accumulation, we get frustrated and act accordingly. The Kalier just sees their thread in isolation. Perhaps we should react as if we were a friend of the Kalier and it were the first such thread we'd ever seen.