Java Forum?
 

How many of you use Java? I am curious because I recently downloaded the 1.4 sdk and I'm using it on Mandrake Linux. It seems to be going well.

I like Java for these reasons (note: I'm not an experienced Java programmer).

1) I was searching for a strong OOP language that was supported by an extensive graphics and networking library. I think that Java is probably the best in this area. I would rather use Standard C++ but I don't think there are any libraries that support Standard C++ (I only use C++ if it fully supports the STL).

2) I'm allowed to learn Java for free. That's a plus, although I know that I'm not getting all of the libraries for enterprise work, but at least it's not Microsoft (I don't want to support a criminal organization).

3) Java is platform neutral. I can run my programs on many platforms with minimal or no changes to the code, and there are a lot of people using Java.

4) There is a load of documentation. I can't say enough about this. It makes all the difference in the world to have books. I find this lacking in practically all the platform specific system interfaces and toolkits.

I don't want to start a flame war. Look it, I know that C/C++ is more powerful than Java. The difference being that C/C++ are used to build systems, and Java is middleware programming. I am a C/C++ programmer and I will always be one, even when I use Java. I know that Java was implemented in C/C++. But that's the whole thing you see, Java is a system. It should be used for high level application implementation. I kind of like it. What do others think?

what does this have to do with a forum?

why on earth do you imply you can't learn C++ for free?

java is a pretty limited language in many areas, and swing is hideous.

There is vast amounts of information about C++ as well.

As for a forum for this, there already is Programming, I would think that would be fine for Java Programmers as well.

Cool

I never implied that C++ wasn't free, only that Standard C++ is not used very often (note the word Standard). I don't know of any great Standard C++ libraries, I don't know if there is even one, and when the 2003 revision of the C++ Standard is released next year, I'd like to start learning it right away, but it's hard to say when the compilers will catch up.

Java is a strong OOP language and it will be adding templated in 2003 so that programmers will be able to employ generic programming. In addition there are tons of books. Sure there are many books on C++, but how many books are there on the current XFree86 or Xlib? As far as I'm concerned C++ is crippled without knowledge of the software architecture. And where are the system templates that should be a requirement for every serious C/C++ programmer so that they can learn to build their own systems?

Oh and thanks MasterC. It would be cool to have some Java activity on the programming board (especially since java is platform neutral).

Not that I'm gonna get involved in the argument, but I would have thought that there is more than enough documenation on both XFree86 and the Xlibs, but perhaps not in a printed and published fashion... but then, it's constantly evolving, so as soon as a book is printed, it's out of date. If you go to the ftp/http sites that host the source files, you'll probably find a whole host of documentation.

I'm not sure, maybe your right about that. I checked out the XFree86 website and I didn't find anything except disarray. We need to unlock that information from Grandmothers closet so that it can be used by C/C++ enthusiasts.

I would like to see templates for systems. What is the definition of any and all systems, and what are the minimum requirements, what are the standards that these systems can or should contain (interfaces, protocols, etc). If you are a C/C++ programmer, chances are that you will be building systems in order to use the langauge effectively or else you should just use systems that are already implemented with C/C++ such as Java.

I want to know what the definition of a middleware framework is, or a virtual machine. Where are the books?

On a side note, with regard to using system interfaces, look at GTK+, there are 4 - 5 books on the subject, only 1 book is 2002.

I'm scared that Palladium is going to lock up the internet because the knowledge base for system implementation is largely owned by vendors.

Sadly, Java works slightly better on my notebook computer running WinXP than it does on Mandrake 9.0.

I never want to purchase the an MSDN subscription, and I don't want Microsoft to own the internet, however I can run Java on the Microsoft OS and on the Linux OS.

With palladium comming along, Linux might get whiped out. I would like to make the investment in learning Linux, how to use it, how the architecture is implemented. It is the only system where a C/C++ programmer can build systems and have control.

At the same time I'm hesitant to put all my eggs into one basket (with Linux) and so Java is a necessary language to study and use. It's also a very nice OOP langauge and is supported well by a hierarchy of classes. As I've stated above, it is a very high quality langauge and it's used widely, it has tons and tons of books and documentation.

I would like to be building systems on Linux but as far as I've seen, there isn't that much support for system development, it's a shame. It's a crime that system development is not stressed. Nobody thinks about it. Where are the skeleton system templates, where are the Standard C++ windows and graphics libraries. Where is the initiative to talk about system development with C/C++, to really use the potential of an open source architecture.

This didn't happen before vendors closed the doors on Open Source. It's really depressing that we are in for a dark age.

i don't really think that's a case for learning java. linux won't get whiped (???) or whipped or even wiped out just like that. Unix runs the internet, not M$. And there is so little difference between C++ and Java (apart from when you get really involved of course), you could easily flip between the two without too much bother. and C++ is so so so much faster. and not java.

but anyway, M$ is generally Anti Java. they just launched C# which is intended to make java redundant anyway.

C/C++ is very different than Java except for syntax. The Java people say that Java is much more secure and it is more portable than C/C++. It boils down to middleware. I'm not here to argue that because I already know what the truth is.

I never want to use Microsoft .net! It's not cross-platform so I don't think that it makes Java redundant. It's just an attempt to mislead programmers.

I am just concerned about Palladium especially if the US government gets involved and makes laws that make Palladium manditory. They are stupid enough to do that. It's a huge mess. I want to find some ways around it.