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Old 11-23-2009, 06:09 AM   #1
DragonSlayer48DX
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Did you find this post helpful?


I noticed this new feature on Saturday, and I'm assuming it's in beta and awaiting feedback, as I've only seen it in LQS&F. I also noticed in one of my own posts here:

Quote:
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful


yet my Thanks count didn't change, so I'll kick off the discussion with a question:

Is this going to replace the seemingly obscure Blue Thumb, or become a distraction from it?

Last edited by DragonSlayer48DX; 11-23-2009 at 06:10 AM.
 
Click here to see the post LQ members have rated as the most helpful post in this thread.
Old 11-23-2009, 06:53 AM   #2
titanium_geek
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or facebook like/dislike?

I don't know, I don't like the negativity aspect of the yes/no, but it is true that the thumb is a bit obscure.
 
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:11 AM   #3
GazL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titanium_geek View Post
or facebook like/dislike?

I don't know, I don't like the negativity aspect of the yes/no, but it is true that the thumb is a bit obscure.
I'm sure we've all seen replies that will cause more harm than good posted from time to time. As long as people only use the 'no' vote to flag that type of posting, I don't see a problem with it. It may even encourage people not to offer advice on things they don't really understand and probably shouldn't be posting on.

The yes/no ratio can be quite useful when reading posts on topics you don't know enough about to be able to validate for yourself.


I like the idea of the "helpful yes/no?" feature, but it still relies on people using it sensibly to have any value at all.

Should each 'yes' automatically generate a 'thanks', or (more controversially) a no subtract one? or should the thumb/thanks stat be dropped completely. I'm not sure on that one and to be honest I don't care. All I'm interested in is a way of validating the content of individual posts, and I think the yes/no will allow for that.

I don't really care about the 'thanks score' game. If someone has helped me, I still think it's nicer to take the time to thank them personally in a post, and I appreciate the same response when I help someone.

Last edited by GazL; 11-23-2009 at 09:25 AM. Reason: added a little more.
 
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:32 PM   #4
jeremy
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This is a new BETA feature that we're currently testing out here in the LQS&F forum. While it's possible it could completely replace the "thanks" functionality, that not a 100% given at this time. We're looking for feedback and suggestions on how you think a system like this should work. Note that it would be possible to remove the "No" option and only allow for positive responses. If we do end up keeping a feature like this, it would be possible to use the information in interesting ways. A couple include: highlighting the "most helpful" answer when viewing a specific thread and improving search results.

--jeremy
 
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Old 11-24-2009, 09:58 PM   #5
DragonSlayer48DX
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Thanks for your reply, Jeremy.

My votes go to replacing the Blue Thumb, and removing the 'no' option.

1) The ability to highlight the most helpful answer when viewing a specific thread and improve search results are far more useful than a simple "Thanks".

2) In my own experience on websites that include a 'no' or 'thumbs down' option, people tend to vote based on their own personal interest rather than the validity or usefulness of the post.

Cheers
 
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Old 11-24-2009, 11:49 PM   #6
titanium_geek
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I agree that "did you find this post helpful: yes" is good, the thumbs is a nice touch, they aren't exactly the same. (Depends on how you use them I guess.)

For "not helpful" (no) - I think that anything truly worthy of a "no" is either spam, "you idiot, rtm", random non-answers, or "why not delete all your files to solve this" need to be reported, as they need moderator attention.

There is a kind of "not helpful" answer that isn't worthy of a report, where an asker hasn't specified that they are using hardware/software Y but a responder has answered with something that works on hardware/software X. At that point, the asker needs to come back to the thread, and say "oh, I forgot to mention that I'm using Y, not X." Simply clicking "not helpful" doesn't help the asker in this case.

my 2c.

titanium_geek

PS GazL I put "no" on your post simply for testing purposes, to see what would happen. I actually think it's a good response.

Last edited by titanium_geek; 11-24-2009 at 11:51 PM.
 
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:32 AM   #7
smeezekitty
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But the no could be used to alert members not to take the advice or to show that it is bad advice but not against the rules.
 
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Old 11-25-2009, 03:45 AM   #8
titanium_geek
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smeezekitty, why not post again and say:

"hey, that advice by TG was really bad and might break your computer- do this instead".

If the user has email notifications switched on, they will get notification of this. They won't get any notification of any "no" votes.

I believe that the "no" option is a danger. For example, it would be a tool of negativity that might turn a discussion into a flame war. You could get people arguing about stuff and saying that the opposing position's answers are "not helpful" while their own side's answers "are helpful". Having your answer chosen as "not helpful" for no apparent reason isn't a pleasant feeling.

There isn't a positive reason for a "no" option. It is true there are some valid uses for the "no" option, but those things are better done by using the reply box- this is a forum, not a popularity contest.
 
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:26 AM   #9
GazL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titanium_geek View Post
PS GazL I put "no" on your post simply for testing purposes, to see what would happen. I actually think it's a good response.
No worries TG, I wouldn't have taken it personally anyway.


I prefer to keep the 'no'. Firstly, "X out of Y found this helpful", is more informative than "X found this useful", especially as some people may vote yes who don't understand the issue properly. IMO, it's the yes/no ratio that provides the value, not the raw numbers.

The other thing the no vote allows, as smeezekitty has also pointed out, is that it could alert people of bad advice. TG is quite right, posting a follow up post when finding poor advice is always advisable, and reporting 'really bad' or dangerous advice is probably a good step too. However there's a danger that the reader may not read any further than the original reply thinking that they've found a solution. However, on the other hand, you could argue that if they don't read on then it's their own fault and we shouldn't be trying to nanny them. (Always two sides to everything. )


My view is that without the yes/no ratio the value of the feature is decreased (probably to the point of not being worth doing). I can appreciate people being wary of the negative psychological aspects of the no votes, and you can pretty much guarantee that some jerks will abuse it from time to time, just to be spiteful. However, I suspect that any replies that unfairly get voted with a no, would quickly get additional yes votes from others to counter the injustice.

I guess at the end of the day, it all boils down to whether people can be trusted to use it properly.

I think I've pretty much exhausted everything I have to say on this now, so I'll leave it at that.

edit:

Ok, I just thought of an exploit. Someone posts good advice, gets lots of yes votes then comes back and edits their reply and puts something dangerous in there which now looks like it's got some sort of peer review/community approval. This could be countered by having an edit reset the counts.

Last edited by GazL; 11-25-2009 at 05:37 AM.
 
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Old 11-25-2009, 10:30 AM   #10
jeremy
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Thanks for the feedback, please keep it coming. A couple comments:

* This feature would not be enabled in General (or other non technical forums), which should keep the flame aspect to an absolute minimum.
* While the issue GazL brings up about editing content is certainly possible, there are enough mitigating factors (including the fact that any post edit is clearly logged and marked) that I don't think it should be a deciding factor in whether we implement this feature or not.

--jeremy
 
4 members found this post helpful.
Old 11-25-2009, 10:57 AM   #11
forrestt
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I like the yes and no choices. I also like the thank you system (although I find the thumb icon unintuitive and think newbies probably don't even get what it means so don't use it). From my experience, the LQ community is very responsible and respectful 99.9% of the time. I have faith that this will be used correctly.

You could try putting the helpful stats in the form of a percentage rounded to the closest integer, like "73% of members found this post helpful." (and perhaps not "members" since it isn't really all members, just the ones that chose to answer, but that is being a bit picky on my part). If you think 3 out of 4 is comparable to 66 out of 88, then that may be a better way to report it. Just a suggestion, not a request.

I would like to see the result on a separate line above the "Did you find this post..." because when you have a response it makes the word wrapping go funky.

Thanks Jeremy for everything you've done. I've enjoyed this site for years and look forward to many more.

Forrest

Last edited by forrestt; 11-25-2009 at 11:00 AM.
 
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:12 AM   #12
GrapefruiTgirl
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Jeremy -- disregard my email
 
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:12 AM   #13
jeremy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestt View Post
If you think 3 out of 4 is comparable to 66 out of 88, then that may be a better way to report it.
FWIW, I don't think they are comparable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forrestt View Post
I would like to see the result on a separate line above the "Did you find this post..." because when you have a response it makes the word wrapping go funky.
I made this change about 30 minutes ago

Thanks for the feedback.

--jeremy
 
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Old 11-25-2009, 11:17 AM   #14
jeremy
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In order to get additional feedback and data on this feature, I've enabled it in the following forums:
Linux - Software
Linux - Newbie
Programming

Also, the "most helpful" answer is now linked after the first post (this will only happen when a minimum number of votes have been received).

--jeremy
 
3 members found this post helpful.
Old 11-25-2009, 11:22 AM   #15
forrestt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
FWIW, I don't think they are comparable.
I don't either. Was just going off of GazL's, "IMO, it's the yes/no ratio that provides the value, not the raw numbers." and making a suggestion on how it could be done.

Forrest
 
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