Create a true "Newbie" section
 

I mentioned this once before and it wasnt taken very well. I have spent some time looking into the linux world and it is made up of programmers, administrators and the like. Hence when a true newbie comes along that does not fit the mold he is not given the same attention because of some brotherhood mentality. I understand of course that you have a real good thing and dont really deep down want the whole world to go linux becuase it may experience the same problems as the other guy. Last time I mentioned this I suggested that the respondant of my previous message go to the newbie section and find one true newbie post in that forum other than mine and he didnt and still couldnt. If you create a true newbie section (that addresses about 90% of the worlds users) and have members that are willing to stoop to that level, someone like me may get help. Look at my post http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...readid=198752. Are you telling me that knowone that has looked at my post knows the answer to my question; No I submit that because its so obvious that I am so distant from the brotherhood that no one wants to bother. I have also been to some of the other suggested sites that you list and more than once I have found it stated, under the heading of "Is linux for you", that Linux is for administrators. I submit to you that this is only because thats the way the majority of Linux users want it. I dont know what else to say. I am a little upset. I am being a little bit selfish here as well. You see I am a cheapscate who bought a cheap linux CD with no manual so some of this is my fault but I will always be a cheapscate and wont buy a manual. You see I just decided to leave windows due to the following: My web browser would not access my bank account; My old 98 would not accept the latest browser; My computer will not work with windows XP software required to run the latest browser, forcing me to buy a new computer package. I almost had a meltdown after noticing the money pit that microsoft cornered me into. So here I am and now I am cornered again. I guess I am playing a little dumb to because I probably could have tried netscape or mozilla with windows but I have had problems with the microsofts business practices and wanted out anyway and the above described problem is when I went off the edge. So here I am

I am sorry you have not gotten a response to your question. I had a look, but I cannot help you because 1: I don't use Mandy, and 2: I don't use dialup.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that people are too good to help you. It is more likely that nobody that knows the answer has seen your thread. Do not assume that just because your problem is "so obvious" to you that it is to everyone else as well. If it is so obvious why can't you fix it yourself?

Also, the fact that you can't be bothered to read a manual does not ingratiate yourself to experiences Linux users. We have no problem helping noobs, but we will only help those that make an honest effort to help themselves. It is not our responsibility to rewrite a manual because someone can't to be bothered to read it. If you have no money it means nothing. There is huge amounts of Linux documentation on the internet for you to read.

As for your problem:
You neglect to mention what program you are using to set up your dialup connection. You neglect to mention what you have tried so far, and any errors you received once having tried it. We are not mind readers.

I suggest you read this: (don't worry it's free)
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

If after reading this you still think we are all members of the "brotherhood" and are to good to help you then I would expect a lot of terse RTFM answers to your questions. Sorry, but your statement :"Hence when a true newbie comes along that does not fit the mold he is not given the same attention because of some brotherhood mentality." is the biggest load of crap I've ever read.

Two years ago I was a rank noob just like you, but I read the link I posted above, asked smart questions, and I recieved plenty of respect from the "brotherhood"

robby737, this site strives to be extremely friendly to newbies (and experts). We work hard to maintain a friendly and helpful atmosphere. Also we have a forum that is expressly labeled "Linux - Newbies" I am unsure what else you are asking for? Almost every question posted here at LQ gets a response. We even have members that spend their time going through the threads that don't have any replies to try and make sure everyone is helped.

--jeremy

BTW, you only let less then 3 hours go by in your thread before assuming no one would respond...

quotes:
I have spent some time looking into the linux world and it is made up of programmers, administrators and the like.

Hence when a true newbie comes along that does not fit the mold he is not given the same attention because of some brotherhood mentality

Well I am neither a programmer nor an admin., and I sure don't belong to a brotherhood, but I sure as heck can find an answer to most of my questions(problems) with a little searching, here at LQ as well as elsewhere on the net. If you need more assistance than LQ or the thousands of sites on the web can provide, then find a lug near you or a nix guru who can help you out. If you are not prepaired to put in the time, or do not not have the time to search and try out the suggestions that are provided to you, then you are going to have a hard way to go.
Good luck in whatever direction you choose.

All I'd say is, give the brotherhood somemore time. Maybe you'd understand us better. Maybe we'll explain ourselves better. Whatever the case, please understand we never ignore the newbies. We are all promoting Linux and so are always eager to help the newbies.

Hope you find all your answers.

I will have to say that it most LQ'ers will go out of their way to try to help someone. Complaining that a person only gets a response if they're "already in the club" (for lack of a better term) is just, well, I think, unfair and untrue.

I would suggest that you might consider 2 facts regarding posts to LQ: first, everyone here is a volunteer, freely donating their time and knowledge to help others. If the information available here (for free) does not seem to be useful to you, you are under no obligation to use it. Second, please keep in mind that just because a person posts a question, he/she is not guaranteed an automatic and immediate response, due to the facts that a.) people who see the post may not know the answer, and b.) people who know the answer may not have seen the post. Please be patient -- everyone here has been in the same spot, where it's frustrating to want to use Linux but not know enough about it to accomplish one's goals, but everyone here has stuck with it and spent some time reading Linux books and getting up to speed. If you wait a day or two, most likely if anyone has any useful tips to pass along, they will do so. Simply interpreting a lack of response within a tiny 2.5 hour timeframe as a "bad attitude" among the LQ community is pretty shortsighted.

Obviously the ideal situation would be for the LQ community to instantly answer every question that gets posted instanteously, but realistically, most questions will probably take anywhere from 1 hour to 3 or 4 days to solve, if they get solved at all. Keep in mind that it's a pretty big world out there, and given that LQ has members worldwide, you should at least give your post 24 hours to collect responses. In the meantime, perhaps you might to avail yourself to informative books; personally I would recommend O'Reilly's "Running Linux" as well as Sheer's "RUTE".

We've all been in your position before, but with a little time and little reading, solving Linux problems got gradually easier. Good luck with your project, in any case. --J.W.

Re: Create a true "Newbie" section
 

I have been helping "newbies" here for quite a while and have seen a lot of other "experienced Linux users" helping newbies without a "brotherhood mentality". I have seen *very few* linux places on the web where that might be true, but not here. I am also a member of two very friendly and helpful mailing lists.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hreadid=199066
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hreadid=198865
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...hreadid=198672

There are thousands.

You haven't read very many threads, have you? No, in all the over 1,000,000 posts, no newbie got any help. BLAH, BLAH. Lately, I've been helping at least a couple a day.

As has already been stated, give it time. There are people here from all over the world and we don't work here. We have other lives. Plus, you are asking a Mandrake only question which requires someone using Mandrake that has used that config program.

I would say, most of us probably administer our own machines/networks. For work or just for the fun and love of it. You can get help. Either here or ... see below.

Have you thought about there are PLENTYT OF FREE ONES. Look at my signature. And have you ever thought about your local library? If they don't have the book on hand they have an inter-library loan program where they can order the books you need.

There are hundreds of links to free information here
http://www.starnetok.net/~jallen/bookmarks/index.html

And with Longhorn it's going to cost much more.

Good choice. Welcome to the world of Linux. Just please, get facts before you type. We are here to help.

Well I finally got some replies the hard way. Thank you very much. I wanted to let you know that I have been searching the internet for free info and reading all info concerning my problems and I either dont understand the answers or I dont get any. The problem with not understanding is that all of the asnwers with the exception of jeffreybluml's (in another post)was given at a level a true newbie can understand and thats why I want a true newbie section. Again I ask you to go to the newbie section and show me one post that a true noob has posted. And when I say noob I mean from the perspective of the normal user. When I explained my problem I gave all the info i knew how to give. There is only one Mandrake configuaration section as far as I know and its accessed through KDE. In that there is only one network/ internet configuration selection. When a true noob installs a OS he goes to the start button selects system selects configuration mandrake configuration and so on. He is not going to try to do his initial set up of a system he knows nothing about in another way. WIth that if someone would think at a noob level when trying to answer the question it would not have been hard to figure out that I went the GUI route with the default setup. Just to set your minds at ease, I am cheap but I will learn this through research. I built the first computer I ever owned and or used without buying a how to book and I will make it through this.

JW I responded before reading your response you are 100% correct. Darthtux same thing I stand corrected. I really have been trying to figure this out and do appreicate all and any help I get. I just am frustrated. I dont like it much when I cant figure things out, Its one of my biggest flaws. I am truly sorry for my attitude. Another probem with all this is that I have to ask these question at work away from my linux machine so sometimes I cant go look at the details. Again this is my fault in that I put my questions together while at home in front of my machine where I can be more detailed. I will do this in the future. Oh I am cheap as stated many times but I would be willing to buy a book if I thought it could start at my level. I havent found that yet. I dont want to use windows anymore and I do enjoy tinkering like others here so I'll make it through. Thanks for understanding

One thing that helps and I have to tell myself *all* the time is remain calm. Patience is a true virtue I am still working on. Another good thing to remember is *edit* before *submit reply*. :)

I worked for 2 1/2 years telephone support for windows users. Now that was frustrating. Learning Linux to me is easier and so is helping with it.

Welcome to the world of Linux!

Here at LQ we like helping people. If you cannot get the answer your looking for you can usually add more information to the post so more people will understand the problem.

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...58#post1018258

It seems that there are two types of newbies, and many of us fit between these two types:

1) Novice computer users, and new to Linux (the "true" newbie mentioned above)
2) Professional computer user (programmers, admins, etc.), but new to Linux

This is just an observation, and I don't know how it might be formulated into a useful suggestion for change. Perhaps users can score themselves in their profile to see how they rate themselves on their knowledge of Linux, Windows, hardware, etc. That way one could see the level at which to post a response. Another option might be forming another forum.

It may be more trouble than it is worth, so it may not get anywhere.

In any case, I have found many of the posts very helpful and I appreciate all the help that I have received from LQ. It is a great resource for those of us moving towards Linux.

thx

Really, the answer is simple: tell us what you already know, tell us what you have done, tell us what you have read, tell us what you are trying to run it on.

Bad: gaim won't work, please help.

Good: I am trying to run Gaim, but it is failing. I installed it from <source/rpm/urpmi/apt-get/etc> and the install <went well/gave me this error>. When I run from the gui it <does this>. When I run it from a console it <does this> and <gives the following error message>. I have <Googled/read a man page or two> and the information from <this page> seemed correct but gives me <this new error message>. Can someone <point me in the right direction/give me detailed newbie friendly step by step instructions> please. I really am <a newbie/an intermediate user/a complete genius>.

It really is that simple. None of us are psychic (in most cases our tin foil hats block the telepathic waves ;)) and the more info we get, the better our answers will be.

In my sig (below, if you have the signature view turned on), there is a link to ESR's "How to Ask Questions the Smart Way". Some of it is a little dated, but the underlying information is still good.

Oh you have done the research HUH, well in MY Day Job, I am a Professional Truck Driver!! I use LInux @ home and work because I can.............you might want to do more research before you classify all
LInux users in ONE catagory!!

can't add much to the great replies above. just to remind you that nobody is born with any computer knowledge - everybody has to learn, and regarding linux, most of us did it by reading, experimenting, and reading some more. then repeating steps 1-3.

a google search for "linux newbie (help OR tutorial OR guide)" got 836,000 hits - I'd suggest you at least make an effort to read a few of them before criticizing the generous members of this board for not catering sufficiently to your specific needs.

:)