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Old 06-01-2004, 12:34 AM   #1
Nz_Boy_2004
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what the deal with gentoo??


Im wondering the deal with gentoo about a couple of mouths ago apporx i changed to slackware and it was a race between slackware and gentoo but slack won because of my slow modem, id like to know why gentoo requiers a fast internet(really), cant you just download the iso's and install it off cd's into a partition like slack??, And my modem is a winmodem so i guess this would affect gentoo as well ay? anyway if you know the anwser to my question please anwser i'd like to find out why i choose slackware over gentoo because of my modem.

Regards.

P.S. I love slackware anyway, but im thinking about a LFS and heard that gentoo is kind of half LFS and half slackware, which im not sure if this is true, anyway i wanted to try gentoo before i did a LFS if its like that.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 01:09 AM   #2
solnul
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Gentoo does provide ISOs and some binary packages, but most of the installing is done by downloading source and compiling. Since Gentoo machines are constantly downloading source tarballs, they need a fast link.

I guess you could run Gentoo with just the releases, but that pretty much defeats the purpose.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 02:16 AM   #3
Nz_Boy_2004
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O.K. so i couldnt really use it and since ive got a winmodem wouldnt that affect it as well??? Ill just go stright and do a LFS then.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 02:55 AM   #4
solnul
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Having a winmodem only means you need a special software driver for it. As long as you can find a linux driver, it should work. Hardware vs. software modem doesn't really make a difference except for the funky driver and (depending on the modem) occasional signal quality issues.
 
Old 06-01-2004, 03:09 AM   #5
korozion
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You can download the entire ISO. Or you can download a small version of it. The small version has the boot stuff. From there you can start the install. You can either pick to install the packages, or download the required packages and install them later. If you download the entire ISO's you can install the packages from the CD rather than downloading packages. www.gentoo.org/doc has a great document on installing gentoo without a network connection
 
Old 06-01-2004, 03:16 AM   #6
Mega Man X
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Just a side note though: There're not much more to do with LFS then for learning purposes. If you are willing to get a performance as near as Slackware you are in for a big surprise (or disappointment... ). If you want to do a semi-custom distribution, but with all optimizations you need, install packages A (Base Install) and D (Development) for Slackware and download and compile all the rest....
 
Old 06-01-2004, 05:15 AM   #7
davecs
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I use Gentoo. I have a "slow-broadband" ie permanently on 150kbps internet connection via ethernet. That sort of connection is a minimum. In practice it goes about 4 times faster than 56k dial-up modem because it runs at full speed whereas dial-up rarely does.

You can get a prebuilt version of Gentoo by post, and once of the advantages will be that versions can be got optimised for specific processors, ie Athlon-XP, Pentium-4 etc. Once built, the "emerge sync" command will take a long time to complete (this puts a snapshot of current versions of software and where to find them/how to build them on your drive). Then you could try to load a program which may result in your entire KDE desktop having to be updated!

Maybe the nice people at Gentoo ought to release a copy of their mirror at any given time on DVDs, some programs would still have to be downloaded from other sites, but it would enable people without a fast connection to experience just how fast Linux can go...
 
Old 06-01-2004, 05:51 AM   #8
Nz_Boy_2004
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Sweet so could i buy gentoo on cd and install it
 
Old 06-01-2004, 05:54 AM   #9
motub
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Quote:
Originally posted by davecs
Maybe the nice people at Gentoo ought to release a copy of their mirror at any given time on DVDs, some programs would still have to be downloaded from other sites, but it would enable people without a fast connection to experience just how fast Linux can go...
Nice idea in theory, but the Portage tree changes every day, as ebuilds are masked, unmasked, hard-masked, added to testing, moved to stable for various architectures... the DVD would be half obsolete before it even finshed mastering. And how would you designate a particular Portage snapshot release, and who would know what the snapshot from 20040601 meant as opposed to the snapshot from 20040516?

There's a snapshot on the ISOs, but naturally it's old. Essential, though, if you're installing without a network connection for some reason. But in all fact, in general, an Internet connection (preferably a good one) is an essential Linux tool for pretty much all distros, unless you have very limited needs. It's just more obvious with Gentoo, and a bit easier with Slack (since you're downloading tiny little SlackPacks instead of full sources).
 
Old 06-01-2004, 09:44 PM   #10
Nz_Boy_2004
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So can i get it on cd and install it of cd's correct or not?????
 
Old 06-02-2004, 02:41 AM   #11
Nz_Boy_2004
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O.K. ive been to gentoo's site right and read all the install stuff and i think this is the way to install off cd's, boot the live cd, do the portage snapshot cd, do the package cd, then your installed is this right????
 
Old 06-02-2004, 06:03 AM   #12
motub
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From Gentoo Linux Documentation -- Choosing the Right Installation Medium
Quote:
2.b. Make your Choice

Introduction

Still interested in trying out Gentoo? Well, then it is now time to choose the installation medium you want to use. Yes, you have the choice, no, they are not all equal, and yes, the result is always the same: a Gentoo base system.

The installation media we will describe are:

* Gentoo's Minimal LiveCD
* Gentoo's Universal LiveCD

Every single media has its advantages and disadvantages. We will list the pros and cons of every medium so you have all the information to make a justified decision. But before we continue, let's explain our three-stage installation.

The Three Stages

Gentoo Linux can be installed using one of three stage tarball files. The one you choose depends on how much of the system you want to compile yourself. The stage1 tarball is used when you want to bootstrap and build the entire system from scratch. The stage2 tarball is used for building the entire system from a bootstrapped "semi-compiled" state. The stage3 tarball already contains a basic Gentoo Linux system that has been built for you. As we will explain later, you can also install Gentoo without compiling anything (except your kernel and some optional packages). If you want this, you have to use a stage3 tarball.

<snip>

Now take a look at the available installation media.

Gentoo LiveCDs

The Gentoo LiveCDs are bootable CDs which contain a self-sustained Gentoo environment. They allow you to boot Linux from the CD. During the boot process your hardware is detected and the appropriate drivers are loaded. They are maintained by Gentoo developers.

All LiveCDs allow you to boot, setup networking, initialize your partitions and start installing Gentoo from the Internet. However, some LiveCDs also contain all necessary source code so you are able to install Gentoo without a working network configuration.

Now what do these LiveCDs contain?

Gentoo's Minimal LiveCD

This is a small, no-nonsense, bootable CD which sole purpose is to boot the system, prepare the networking and continue with the Gentoo installation. It does not contain any stages (or, in some cases, a single stage1 file), source code or precompiled packages. For example the x86 variant of this LiveCD can be found in the universal subdirectory and is called install-x86-minimal-2004.1.iso.
Minimal LiveCD Pros and Cons
+ Smallest download
+ Suitable for a complete architecture
+ You can do a stage1, stage2 or stage3 by getting the stage tarball off the net
- Contains no stages, no portage snapshot, no GRP packages and therefore not suitable for networkless installation

Gentoo's Universal LiveCD

Gentoo's Universal LiveCD is a bootable CD suitable to install Gentoo without networking. It contains a stage1 and several stage3 tarballs (optimized for the individual subarchitectures). For example the x86 variant of this CD is called install-x86-universal-2004.1.iso and can be found in the universal subdirectory.

If you take a closer look into releases/x86/2004.1 you will see that we also provide Gentoo Package CDs (in the packagecd/) directory. This CD (which isn't bootable) only contains precompiled packages and can be used to install software after a succesfull Gentoo Installation. To install Gentoo, you only need the Universal LiveCD, but if you want OpenOffice.org, Mozilla, KDE, GNOME etc. without having to compile every single one of them, you need the Packages CD too. For example the Athlon-XP (a subarchitecture of x86) Packages CD is called packages-athlon-xp-2004.1.iso and can be found in the appropriate subdirectory (athlon-xp).

You only need the Packages CD if you want to perform a stage3 with GRP installation.
So, once you have downloaded and burned a Universal Live CD, you would then boot from it and install the stage 3 tarball and the portage snapshot from the CD. You would then configure the USE flags and make.conf, configure and install a kernel, and configure the various system files (/etc/fstab, the bootloader config file, etc) as detailed in The Gentoo Handbook.

When the base system is completely installed and configured, you would then reboot and install packages from the packages CD as detailed in Gentoo Linux Documentation -- Finalizing your Gentoo Installation (Optional: Install GRP Packages section).

So, you only have 2 CDs (the Live CD-- which contains a Portage snapshot-- to install the system, and the Packages CD, which is optional, but you want to use it).

You probably want to read the Handbook again before you begin your install; a fast scan only will likely result in problems. You can, however, use a second virtual console while installing to view the Handbook online while the install proceeds in the main console (if you have Internet available). This helps a lot; otherwise you're reduced to printing it out, which will take a lot of ink .

Hope this helps.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 06:57 AM   #13
Chris H
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I installed from the 2 cd set and just used what was there to get Gentoo up and running. Never bothered with using the packages off the 2nd cd as I'm in no hurry! Only on 150kbs cable here but it's no problem. If I wanted to I could point copy over the 2nd cd and install the packages from that.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 08:58 PM   #14
Nz_Boy_2004
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sweet sound's cool can i install it then add it to my exiting lilo from slackware coze i want to keep slack as well??? Which is the best gentoo release 2004.1 or 2004.0 or 1.4, i guess the newest one but just asking, and one last question is gentoo anything like slackware since ive got to know it abit in the last mouths, is the install as easy(well i found it easy as pie), and do you think over all gentoo is better then slackware(dont say you cant compare you have to try i mean over all ), and the gentoo site is alot better then slack's i rekon thats a plus to me lol. Can someone give me a detailed link or something explaning portage, ive got a idea but still dont understand quite what it is and since people say the best thing about gentoo is the portage i'd like to know as much as possible about it.

P.S. only a 150 kb connection what thats fast in NZ, to get a 256 connection with only 1 gig a mouth cost about 20 USD per mouth(40 NZD), plus connection 50 USD(99 NZD), so u guys are luckey u have t1 etc, and its way cheaper lol.

Regards

Last edited by Nz_Boy_2004; 06-02-2004 at 09:11 PM.
 
Old 06-02-2004, 09:44 PM   #15
Chris H
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For portage see here Gentoo docs

Gentoo install is entirely command line based, no nice menus like Slack. Recommend 3-4 hours for a base install if you've never done it before. I probably installed 5 times before I was happy with the way I'd installed it. Read the instructions and follow to the letter as far as you practically can.

Yes, you can add it to existing lilo. I have mdk 10 on hda and Gentoo on hdd. Just make sure you have enough space in your boot partition, if you have one.
 
  


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