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Old 05-02-2014, 10:20 AM   #31
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLinDroid View Post
It already is costly just to get the freeware working as it should.
excuse me?
for you, the end user?
or for those developing the software?

but it is true, you are treating this whole topic as if you were a paying customer.

and you don't even notice that some people are getting extremely pissed off about it.

maybe mere complaining helps when you're paying for something, but not when it's free.

you don't even know how to provide relevant information that would help to solve the problem (if there really is a problem outside your own screen) yet you're just keeping on and on and on and insist on finding fault elsewhere.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 10:23 AM   #32
Doc CPU
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Hi there,

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLinDroid View Post
It does not accept SSL connections that all other mail clients accept. [...] Only open connections on ports 110/143/25 are accepted by Thunderbird.
not true. I hope you don't feel offended, but at that point I simply have to say you obviously have problems with setting T-Bird up properly. True, this auto-detect feature for the mail server settings is a PITA because it only works for a few well-known e-mail providers. But you can simply accept the wrong settings during setup and then correct them manually afterwards. Yes, that is a bit awkward, no doubt.

Mine connects to an IMAP account on my own local server with no encryption whatsoever using port 143 for IMAP and 25 for SMTP; and it is configured for a second account on the mail server of my domain and webspace out in the open, using IMAP over TLS with port 993 and SMTP over TLS with port 587. [EDIT: Ports 993 and 587 were correctly suggested automatically by T-Bird when I chose that the connection should use encryption with STARTTLS] Both accounts are private to the point that username and password cannot be deducted from a known scheme.
I know I felt annoyed, too, when I set them up because T-Bird was eager to auto-configure all parameters after I entered the server names, but when I simply accepted them, it was okay and then I fixed them with the Edit/Account Settings dialog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLinDroid View Post
It wants to change server settings, rename my mail server and then the mail sever doesn't understand Thunderbird's authentication.
Yes. I already agreed on that one. In German, we have a saying that goes like "Well-meant is the opposite of well done." And that's what we have here: That silly auto-configuration feature may be fine for someone who has no technical understanding and has an e-mail account with Google or something similarly well-known. But for a lot of people, it's just a nuisance - luckily, you've got to do that only once. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLinDroid View Post
meanwhile mine started behaving itself when I removed my IMAP accounts and created new POP accounts. I think that the problem may possibly lie with how it handles IMAP? I vaguely remember that others also complained about this when using IMAP. To someone with the technical expertise, this could provide a clue, possibly.
Actually I do have a faint clue, but I'm not yet clear about that. In contrast to POP3, IMAP allows to keep the connection permanently open, so that the client (T-Bird) is notified immediately when new mail arrives on the server, and not only when the next poll interval is due. Maybe there's an issue with this IDLE feature - T-Bird wouldn't be the only program that makes trouble about that - assuming this is really where we go. I may get back here later this weekend with an idea, but I'm not promising anything.

[X] Doc CPU

Last edited by Doc CPU; 05-02-2014 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Added a notion in favor of T-Bird's autoconfig "feature"
 
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:35 AM   #33
MacLinDroid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
excuse me?
for you, the end user?
or for those developing the software?

but it is true, you are treating this whole topic as if you were a paying customer.

and you don't even notice that some people are getting extremely pissed off about it.

maybe mere complaining helps when you're paying for something, but not when it's free.

you don't even know how to provide relevant information that would help to solve the problem (if there really is a problem outside your own screen) yet you're just keeping on and on and on and insist on finding fault elsewhere.
I am not forcing anyone to read here; it is voluntary. If others are offended, I am not guilty as I do not intend to. If anyone is offended, you are free to leave to a place where you are at peace. I apologise if I offended anyone.

Downloading from the internet in many areas is nigh on being impossible. Then to get to a spot where software can be downloaded. Then the cost of setting it up and import 1000's of emails, contacts, etc., across a very expensive phone connection. If one has to do it once and get it over with, but having to repeat it is just something many cannot do or afford to do. Think further.....

In my country, 38% of software installations are pirated Microsoft software. Most people cannot afford it and knowledge of freeware is not common. The few who do have this knowledge have an upward battle to get systems to work. Getting it free does not mean we did not pay a high price do get it for free! The delivery costs are high..........data is hellishly expensive.

I tried to download an 809MB .iso and it would have taken over TWO DAYS, not at home but in a public place where it is not cheap. Download at as little as 13kbps.

Last edited by MacLinDroid; 05-02-2014 at 10:56 AM.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 10:42 AM   #34
MacLinDroid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc CPU View Post
Hi there,



not true. I hope you don't feel offended, but at that point I simply have to say you obviously have problems with setting T-Bird up properly. True, this auto-detect feature for the mail server settings is a PITA because it only works for a few well-known e-mail providers. But you can simply accept the wrong settings during setup and then correct them manually afterwards. Yes, that is a bit awkward, no doubt.

Mine connects to an IMAP account on my own local server with no encryption whatsoever using port 143 for IMAP and 25 for SMTP; and it is configured for a second account on the mail server of my domain and webspace out in the open, using IMAP over TLS with port 993 and SMTP over TLS with port 587. But accounts are private to the point that username and password cannot be deducted from a known scheme.
I know I felt annoyed, too, when I set them up because T-Bird was eager to auto-configure all parameters after I entered the server names, but when I simply accepted them, it was okay and then I fixed them with the Edit/Account Settings dialog.



Yes. I already agreed on that one. In German, we have a saying that goes like "Well-meant is the opposite of well done." And that's what we have here: That silly auto-configuration feature may be fine for someone who has no technical understanding and has an e-mail account with Google or something similarly well-known. But for a lot of people, it's just a nuisance - luckily, you've got to do that only once. ;-)



Actually I do have a faint clue, but I'm not yet clear about that. In contrast to POP3, IMAP allows to keep the connection permanently open, so that the client (T-Bird) is notified immediately when new mail arrives on the server, and not only when the next poll interval is due. Maybe there's an issue with this IDLE feature - T-Bird wouldn't be the only program that makes trouble about that - assuming this is really where we go. I may get back here later this weekend with an idea, but I'm not promising anything.

[X] Doc CPU
I want that open port on SSL, not unsecured. See further post below.

I grew up with a dad on a small salary who had the wisdom of buying very old Mercedes cars by the time they were sold at give-away prices. That is where my concept of endless reliability was formed, also of living almost trouble-free. It also made me believe in doing things manually and I still believe that simplicity works. Mercedes uses a door lock design that has never been changed since around 1929, because it really could not be improved upon, basically. This was true until about a decade ago, not sure if this still stands. I am in a culture where simple mechanical things are much loved. That is why so many Gelandewagens live in Kapstadt; some are 35 years old and still original. few people will understand this important value in life. Change is not always for the better.

Last edited by MacLinDroid; 05-02-2014 at 10:52 AM.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 10:49 AM   #35
MacLinDroid
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@DocCPU


My mail server is, for example, mail.maclindroid.com but T-bird changes it to something like pop.maclindroid:995 or imap.maclindroid:993 which the mail server then rejects. It also sets it to TLS which the server rejects.

When I change the values to the correct ones, Thunderbird simply rejects it! It simply will NOT accept IMAP server as mail.maclindroid.com on Port 993 with SSL. It also rejects it as SMTP on ports 587 or 465 with SSL. Evolution, Outlook, Mac OS X, iOS 7, Android mail client all except it except for Thunderbird!


If Evolution could sync a calendar properly, that is where I would have remained as it does the mail bit just about right.

T-bird only agrees to mail.maclindroid.com as unsecured POP on port 110 with smtp unsecured on port 25.

It baffles me.

Last edited by MacLinDroid; 05-02-2014 at 10:51 AM.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 11:27 AM   #36
Doc CPU
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Hi there,

sorry for any inconvenience: If your mail server reports some inappropriate login attempts during the last ten minutes, that was me. I used your information to create a test account in my T-Bird with the server names and settings you supplied.

See the two attached screenshots: The first is the final stage of the "add new account" wizard - of course I don't have a valid mail account on your server and so T-Bird couldn't verify the data. But from there I could simply click on "Advanced Config", where all information I had entered was accepted with no argument. Second image shows the account settings as they would've become effective if they allowed for a successful login.

Of course I deleted this test account again immediately, so there should be no more molesting on my behalf.

[X] Doc CPU
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:33 AM   #37
MacLinDroid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc CPU View Post
Hi there,

sorry for any inconvenience: If your mail server reports some inappropriate login attempts during the last ten minutes, that was me. I used your information to create a test account in my T-Bird with the server names and settings you supplied.

See the two attached screenshots: The first is the final stage of the "add new account" wizard - of course I don't have a valid mail account on your server and so T-Bird couldn't verify the data. But from there I could simply click on "Advanced Config", where all information I had entered was accepted with no argument. Second image shows the account settings as they would've become effective if they allowed for a successful login.

Of course I deleted this test account again immediately, so there should be no more molesting on my behalf.

[X] Doc CPU
Thanks, that is what I am doing, yes. I now also was given a link for manual add-on:
https://nic-nac-project.org/~kaosmos/in ... #addmanual
 
Old 05-02-2014, 12:06 PM   #38
MacLinDroid
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OK, thanks, that add-in works really fine.

When I set up as IMAP, T-bird goes in a loop and keeps checking mail and my hsdpa dongle show there is traffic all the time. Also, it notifies me of a new (test) email but, as per usual, does not download and open it.

When set up as POP, everything works fine.

IMAP has a problem.


Just POP for me, for now.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 12:32 PM   #39
Doc CPU
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Hi there,

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLinDroid View Post
I now also was given a link for manual add-on:
https://nic-nac-project.org/~kaosmos/in ... #addmanual
I'm repeating myself:

Please DO NOT POST CRIPPLED LINKS! The above URL is obviously truncated, so it's useless.
You might have meant https://nic-nac-project.org/~kaosmos/ for the impressing list or https://nic-nac-project.org/~kaosmos...nually-1.0.xpi to download the extension directly. But neither one accounts for the "in" in your broken link.

I'm asking you to fix that.

[X] Doc CPU
 
Old 05-02-2014, 03:57 PM   #40
MacLinDroid
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Talking Thunderbird was retired tonight!!

I wish to thank all who did much to advise me on how to solve my Thunderbird issues.

Now I can announce that my problems are solved as I managed to get Evolution to rid itself of the Calendar issue. I now have IMAP accounts that work right, with SSL, as well as contacts and calendars in sync with my phone.
 
  


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