Hi! I wanted to setup a thin clients in our office. My main goals are:

1.) Setup a server for both Windows and Linux. In a manner that users can choose which operating system to use (either Ubuntu Breezy or Windows 2000).
2.) Ease of printer sharing, USB support, Sound and Multimedia
3.) I have a separate DHCP server included in IPCop and I want IPCop to provide all the IP addresses for the clients.
4.) What are the specs that I need to have for the server?

I have the following server:

Intel P4 3.2
1 GB DDRAM
130 GB Harddisk

Can these specs serve 20 or more clients?

What are your recommended specifications?

You should look into PXE, which is built into most ethernet cards these days. I know how to set PXE up to remote boot Linux, but I don't know how to get it to boot Windows, though I believe that is possible.

You would need a server (either Windows or Linux) with support for tftp (which PXE will use automatically). You then would configure the server appropriately to permit network boot of diskless clients. The server must run dhcp and tftp, and dhcp must be properly configured to tell the client what to look for when booting using PXE.

I don't know if a given client will have the choice of booting either Linux or Windows; I *think* you'll have to pick one or the other - or else , you'll be getting a lot fancier than I ever have.

Okay.. I have my own DHCP server giving IPs to clients. Is it possible to have a different DHCP? Is there a how-to or something? Im just a newbie..

i've done some very basic PXE/TFTP work before, but just using G4U and Fedora

http://www.yourhowto.org/content/view/53/9/

http://www.yourhowto.org/content/view/54/9/

It might be worth just looking at them, i'm not sure about booting Linux/Windows but the top link is how to install Linux using PXE/TFTP

Does the Rdesktop installed on Windows 2000 and XP? If not, how can I make it work? I am trying to boot Windows on thin clients using Thinstation. I get the Windows Terminal Server to appear on the list but when I press enter, nothing happened. Is it possible that rdesktop is not installed/not configured correctly on the machine? I haven't tried Linux but it is my next project. I want to setup a Ubuntu 5.10 server to server the thin clients. I need to make the printer on both clients work and if possible the audio. If someone made the same thing please help me. Thanks.

rdesktop is a RDP client for Linux. it can be used to connect to a windows system running RDP (terminal service). i have used it for as long as i have been using linux. very nice easy CLI tool. there are now some nice GUI tools that combine both RDP with VNC so you have 1 tool to view either server.

you do have to have TS configured properly on the win2k SERVER (win2k pro does not offer a RDP server so you would have to use something like VNC on a 2k pro box) or winXP Pro, not home.

Pro has a gimped RDP server, but it does work well enough. Home is restricted to by invite only. so someone has to be sitting at the XP Home box and manually invite people to "view his seassion" or it will not work.

when you setup TS on the win2k box you will need to chose administration mode or application. if you chose application you will need purchace license per seet. so if you have 20 EUs you would have to buy 25 TS client licenses. IIRC they come in sets of 25 or 100. been to long since i looked into that, and as far as i know you can no longer buy them for win2k server as 2k is no longer supported or "officially" sold. you would have to purchace and upgrade to win2k3 server then buy the 25 TS client licenses.

if you go administration mode you can ONLY have 2 people using TS at 1 time on a win2k server, in win2k3, you are restricted to a single connection.

winXP Pro's vs of RDP is not like that of win2k or win2k3 servers. it locks the local user out of the system, they can take it back, and gives the person who "took control" of the system the same working desktop that the local user had up with all applications etc. this is good for fixing customers computers remote, but is not good for a "thin client" situation.

hope that gives you abit of info on the MS world of RDP.

also keep in mind that in all 3 of those OSs you have netmeeting. now i have never tried to netmeeting into a MS box from a Linux box, but have heard it will work. i have used netmeeting a LOT for remote controll over a system. works very much like VNC without the security you get of tightVNC, but it is light enough to work in 56k world. the built in RDP for winXP is heavier and does not work well in the 56k world without fuddling around with the base settings to improve the performance, but even then due to the bloat in the XP GUI, unless that too is striped down it is going to run much slower then netmeeting on 56k.

First of all, I would like to thank you for providing me such informations. Its a cool thing that you had time knowing all of those things. Well, our direction is really to migrate everything to Linux. Since the Ubuntu is the easiest distro to use for users used to Microsoft, I think Ubuntu will be fine. However, I just want to have one unit with MS Windows installed (either 2K or 2K3) so that they can access their own files or for emergency). I am not aware that I should license thin clients when using MS Windows. I think our company won't be able to save that much. How about setting up an Ubuntu server for thin clients, have you tried that? I haven't tried the thin-client-server setup and I really want to make it work. I am also not sure if the audio, printing and multimedia will work on the clients' side. My other problem is that I already have my own DHCP server (using IPCop) and I don't want to put up another DHCP server just for the thin clients. I am really clueless. I've tried reading the ltsp.orgs docs but its way complicated for me considering that they did not instructed what to do when you already have an existing DHCP server. My other problem is how to make the printers and scanners work. I guess I have to establish the server for thin clients first. I'm kinda looking for a how-to for newbies like me. But anyway, thanks for everything man.

if you are migrating to linux from MS, then why keep anything MS? is there something you need that will not convert or run in Linux?

as for the thinclientfrom the *buntu i have not set it up, but they have a rather active community and have a fairly well written HOWTO for things like that.

from what i have seen it is more geared towards education then business though.

why run thinclient? are your workstations so pathetic (PII or P) that they require the power of a major server to offer the software at a much faster speed?

if you are running PIII or P4 or AMD equiv, just load the full OS and set up NFS (network file system) and other services to make life simpler.

how about giving us a bit of background info like what kind of business is this, what do you need to run it, and more info about your over all goals.

lleb,

Basically, computer units in our company are old. Ranging from 486 to P1 units. Very few P3s (around 5) and all the servers are using a desktop P4 3.0 HT with 2 GB of Memory. A few decades ago, the company bought expensive computer equipments hoping that it will help the company. Unfortunately, all those things went to nothing. Right now, we are trying to revive the IT Department and only few computer units was replaced with a new one. Another problem is that we are having difficulty migrating because workers are already used to Windows. I think Ubuntu is the easiest distro that we can introduce. I am planning to have one server for servicing thin clients using Ubuntu Breezy. If you have other suggestions or know some links on how to setup Ubuntu Terminal Server, please let me know. Thanks.

ok with a lot of 486 and PI i am guessing you are running win95 or win98 and not win2k or winXP. for starters you can not install winXP on anything slower then a PII 233 (well that is what MS will tell you.)

that being said, i can only guess that the EUs are only useing their desktops for some word documents and maybe some spredsheet work as well as e-mail and web browsing... god help you with the load of viruses those old win9x computers must have on them by now. an other thread for that mess.

as for ubuntu being the best for people comeing from windows to linux. that is true if the USER has to install and configure anything other then configure his desktop.

what it boils down to is the GUI you choose. there are 2 major GUIs that have a "windows like feel" to them. Gnome and KDE. personally i like KDE as it works better for me, and even my 3yr boy can use it just as easy as he uses winXP desktop.

now that is saying something to you about how easy the GUI makes things for people to point and click.

so any Linux that YOU and the IT staff can install, configure, and maintain will work as long as you are using either Gnome or KDE for the EU to have their "point and click" world they are used to.

to me KDE is more like a modern MS desktop in the way it feels and acts with left and right click. you can even set the desktop theme to look and act exactly like win9x. very nice of KDE to offer that for people swapping over.

I have never setup remote desktops in linux, but know it can be done. you can have it set so that every workstation has an active GUI login that is really running off of your server(s). sadly i can not tell you exactly how to do that. there are even some threads around here about setting up driveless workstations that run 100% off of the server. welcome to the power that is linux. someone else will have to give you that info though.

as for win2k3 and the TS application server. that is something i can help you set up. major problem there is MONEY. but with linux is sounds like the major problem there will be the learning curve, thus time = money.

so the first year it is a wash. the problem with MS is you will be forced to upgrade the OS and renew the client license every YEAR IIRC on the TS accounts.

as for setting up the TS with win2k3 it is as simple as the following (really cut down vs. you will have to know enough about a win2k3 AD server and the rest to have it properly configured, as secure as you can make MS and what not)

1. install the server win2k3
2. have the account #s handy if required any more for the TS clients.
3. creat users, groups, and OUs in the AD(active directory)
4. configure TS (terminal service) to run in application mode
5. set users who can access the TS server
6. install ALL applications that any and all users will access via TS as the TS admin (must be installed this way or the EU will not have access to them.)
7. install what ever flavor of linux you want that is light but can support some kind of GUI (fluxbox or icesomething or an other might be a good idea for those older boxes)
8. install and configure any of the many RDP clients on the work stations.
9. configure each workstation to have the RDP point to the win2k3 server.
10. teach all EUs how to double click on the RDP client, verify the server name (you will be running a DNS server as you have no choice with win2k3 and AD).
11. have them login and begin work.

the biggest reason i avoid the entire *buntu project for more then 1 workstation is due to the fact they have intentionally left out several services and block other services from working over a LAN. example are cupsd and sshd. neither of those work out of the box and even after following the HOWTO on the ubuntu forums i have yet to get either of them to work properly.

Debian (pure), Knoppix (debian fork), FC (fedora core), RHE (red hat enterprise), CentOS (fork of RHE and is free, but comes with no support other then forums), SuSe are all great distros to use for what you have going.

issue with FC and SuSe is that their are modern and if you do not know how to thin them down they will be so bloated as to not be able to run on those older systems. heck even Debian would be hard pressed to run a GUI on a P1 let alone a 486.

both Gnome and KDE will not run on those older systems just due to how bloated the GUI of today really is. same reason win2k pro and winXP would not run on those older systems. they are just not powerfull enough to handle what is required to run a modern GUI.

if you can put a very light weight GUI (ask around there are plenty of them. i have never used any other then Gnome and KDE) that will run at a semi fast speed on those older 486 and PI, then setting up the remote desktop use should be better for you.

if you want to play around with it as a test base, get Debian, Knoppix, or CentOS, or SuSe up on your P4 system, then install a light weight distro (DSL = damn small linux) and a light weight GUI and configure xforwarding=yes on the P4 and type the following command:

ssh -X user@server_ip application_name

you will be prompted for a p/w to match that user (do not use root) and that app will run on your local computer. but it will only be passing key strokes and mouse movements as the P4 will be running that app, just on your desktop.

so you could:

ssh -X user@IP_address mozilla_firefox

and be browsing the web from your desktop through the P4 server at the P4 server speed power vs the PI or 486 power you are sitting at.

so hope that gives you some direction to head down or think about.

For the older boxes, if you want to use Linux on them, look at www.ltsp.org (linux terminal server proj).

lleb,

thanks for the infos. It's been a great help. I'm seriously considering a linux terminal server (either Mepis or Ubuntu). Considering the old hardwares that we have, that leaves me no choice. For me, it is easier to use the ssh and X-forwarding but to those who are computer iliterate, they will not appreciate it. I need to fool them that they are using the their own machine and not the server. I want to setup LTSP but don't know where to start. Anyway, thanks so much.

chrism01,

If you can give me some tips on how to start LTSP without messing around my DHCP server, I will be very thankful. Thanks.

you will be good to use the LTSP.

as for setting up ssh -X that is easy enough for the EU to never know the differance...

when you creat a desktop shortcut you just have to configure things. keep in mind most EU do not configure shortcuts, do not install software, do not configure hardware, do not have anything to do with the DHCP server or the DNS. they just need things to work. it is the job of the IT staff to configure EVERYTHING for the EU.

i would google for LTSP and howto to see if you can find some good instructions.

Okay, thanks a lot lleb. You're really great. I appreciate it. I was trying hard to make LTSP work. I got few instructions from the net and I'll start from there. Hope you can help me on some difficulties I might encounter. Again, thanks a lot.

again, that is something i have never done in linux. i have seen freeFX (think that is what it was) and was very impressed, but again i have never set it up in linux.

i have on more then one occasion done the MS TS application servers within a Active Directory Domain, but that cost a lot more money and requires potentially more hardware then you have.

i will do what i can to help as i am sure others on this forum will too.