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Old 10-11-2021, 07:34 PM   #1
dedec0
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Question Synaptic does not see last package realeases: bug, other problem or what?


Hello, there.

I am also an user of the great Vivaldi browser. Last saturday, a new mail arrived to me, talking about the features of a new small update that was just made available. I read them, and decided i would like to see them work. I do not make every update, of every possible thing. But for some details, i wanted that new Vivaldi release.

So, as i prefer to do, and find it practical, i opened synaptic. Pressed the button to reload the package information from all sources i have in it - and Vivaldi one is included, of course -, and waited some seconds. "Great, just download it, now?" - i thought. No! The latest version available did not change. Apparently had the last one, "4.0.something". Not even in a smaller part than the one i have installed changed.

I decided to ask about it in a Vivaldi forum, and so i did. I discovered or confirmed that:

1. My setup here is correct.

2. Synaptic has been, at least for some time before today, a package manager that fails to see random packages updates (so, what happened with me, or what i noted for the first time, is not a discovery).

3. That 'apt update; apt upgrade' will not upgrade my distribution to a newer one. It will not change my LTS release of Debian. For that, i must manually change /etc/sources.list*.

But in the thread i mentioned, the person who told me she abandoned synaptic, showed me a working (recent!) screenshot of synaptic, and it worked! Why mine still does not? I even repeated it here. You may want to read the thread there too:

...vivaldi.net/.../solved-update-should-be-installed-from-snapshot-package

In a recent thread i started here, in LQ, 'apt upgrade' seemed to be something to do JUST when we will upgrade the OS, and not just the software we have installed. Can you, please, explain this to me? What i understood from this thread was that 'apt upgrade's were just for distribution upgrades, and the name was different just for this "detail" (and i did not notice it before).

Can you help me get a working synaptic setup, or a clear context, to submit a bug report for it?

'aptitude' sees the new version. 'synaptic' does not, even after i check it with 'aptitude'. I thought that synaptic used /etc/sources.list* too, as its repositories... /-: Did i forget that i set them up twice, when i first did things for this computer, a few years ago?

I did not update Vivaldi just to wait for this thread... well.

Thank you
 
Old 10-11-2021, 07:47 PM   #2
frankbell
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Distribution: Slackware, Ubuntu MATE, Mageia, and whatever VMs I happen to be playing with
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I can't speak to Vivaldi specifically, but one should not expect new software version releases to make it into your distro's repos as soon as they are released.

Some distros are aggressively bleeding edge; others, less so. But even for the most bleeding edge distro, some lag is likely before the newest version release of a package can be tested, vetted, and distributed to various mirrors so they can be accessed via the package manager.

Just my thoughts.
 
Old 10-11-2021, 07:56 PM   #3
dedec0
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Correct me, if i am wrong, frankbell, but i think this does not apply to Vivaldi. Vivaldi hosts its own packages. To make it available in my Debian, i put this on my sources.list (and in synaptic?)

URI: http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb/
Distritution: stable
Section: main

The above is from synaptic. The file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vivaldi.list contains:

Code:
deb http://repo.vivaldi.com/stable/deb/ stable main
And, as i said, aptitude see the new release. Synaptic does not. I tested alternating them, and more than 2 times each. How is this possible?
 
Old 10-11-2021, 10:21 PM   #4
frankbell
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I was not aware that Vivaldi hosted its own Debian repo. I may well have been in error. (I have been in error, as my old boss used to say, before.)

I have no idea why aptitude would see the new release when Synaptic does not, as they should access the same repos.
 
Old 10-12-2021, 11:50 AM   #5
shruggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedec0 View Post
In a recent thread i started here, in LQ, 'apt upgrade' seemed to be something to do JUST when we will upgrade the OS, and not just the software we have installed. Can you, please, explain this to me? What i understood from this thread was that 'apt upgrade's were just for distribution upgrades, and the name was different just for this "detail" (and i did not notice it before).
No. The suggested command in your other thread was apt dist-upgrade which is an obsolete synonym for apt full-upgrade. But here you're dealing with apt upgrade. Moreover, even apt dist-upgrade or apt full-upgrade won't upgrade your system to the next major distribution release by itself unless you also adjust sources.conf. The only difference between the regular apt upgrade and apt full-upgrade is that the latter may remove installed packages in order to satisfy dependencies.

As to your main question, this is strange. Are you sure you didn't put the vivaldi package on hold in synaptic? Does synaptic reload package information on pressing Ctrl+R? Can you still upgrade it in synaptic by right-clicking on it and selecting Mark for Upgrade from the context menu?
 
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Old 10-12-2021, 03:02 PM   #6
dedec0
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by shruggy View Post
No. The suggested command in your other thread was apt dist-upgrade which is an obsolete synonym for apt full-upgrade. But here you're dealing with apt upgrade. Moreover, even apt dist-upgrade or apt full-upgrade won't upgrade your system to the next major distribution release by itself unless you also adjust sources.conf. The only difference between the regular apt upgrade and apt full-upgrade is that the latter may remove installed packages in order to satisfy dependencies.
Ok. Thank you for clarifying the details of my confusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shruggy View Post
As to your main question, this is strange. Are you sure you didn't put the vivaldi package on hold in synaptic?
Yes, I am sure. I did not even know i could do this in synaptic (really simple! Menu 'packages > block/hold version'). I turned it on to test, the 'vivaldi-stable' package turned to red, and with a locker icon in it - which is really clear of what is its situation. Good. I unmarked it again.

The only packages on hold, on my system now, are those for firefox, thunderbird and skype. If synaptic holds packages in a different way, compared to aptitude+apt+dpkg+[other commands?], I ran this command now:

Code:
16:03:45 [  0] root@here: ~
# apt-mark showhold
firefox-esr
firefox-esr-l10n-pt-br
skypeforlinux
thunderbird
thunderbird-l10n-pt-br

16:03:49 [  0] root@here: ~
#
So, 'vivaldi-stable' is not there.

Now, to make this story "interesting", using synaptic, now, i discovered that there is a place where it shows the latest available version of this package. And even more than that, it shows 2 more available versions, and one more, my current one. See it here:

https://imgbox.com/HSAG0geY

This image shows part of the synaptic window, with the 2 results for a search query "vivaldi", and the properties window for package 'vivaldi-stable', in the tab "versions". The versions shown are, for my surprise:

Code:
4.3.2439.44-1 (stable)
4.3.2439.39-1 (stable)
4.2.2406.54-1 (stable)
4.0.2312.33-1 (now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shruggy View Post
Does synaptic reload package information on pressing Ctrl+R? Can you still upgrade it in synaptic by right-clicking on it and selecting Mark for Upgrade from the context menu?
I did not even know this ctrl+r shortcut. But yes, it does. I use the "Recarregar" button in the window i showed above. "Recarregar" means reload. I did it again, now, although i had already done it some times before starting this thread, and the thread in Vivaldi forum. The last version shown still did not change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shruggy View Post
Can you still upgrade it in synaptic by right-clicking on it and selecting Mark for Upgrade from the context menu?
No. The context menu for 'vivaldi-stable' package is disabled for:

- unmark
- mark for installing
- mark for reinstalling
- mark for update

... which are the first 4 items in this menu.

Now, going beyound your questions and comments, i discovered something totally new, and it seems that it is not just to me: in the package 'properties' window, in that 'versions' tab, in its lowest part is written "Note: To install a version different from the default, select the option Package -> Force version... in the menu."

I see it here:

https://imgbox.com/uM9zii1Z

So, the big discovery is that when i go to this menu, I see 4 available options to force the install. The available ones are the same i listed above. So, i can force vivaldi version to be that "4.3.etc.". But the force version window has this warning: "The package manager always selects the best version available. If you force a version which is not the [default/standard], errors in dependencies management may occur". (in this quote, the two words inside brackets are because i am translating the text to english; i hope to write the correct idea of it, anyway)

So, given that synaptic does not "like" the currently newer available versions, and aptitude (and i do not know about apt command, how to see what options it has?) sees it without problems, i guess... should i update?

Should i submit a bug report or a feature request for synaptic? The "feature" would be showing the user that there is/are new versions available, but synaptic finds one or more reasons to avoid this/these updates. Showing the reasons, of course, so the users decide if they want the risk, or not.
 
Old 10-13-2021, 05:56 AM   #7
shruggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedec0 View Post
and i do not know about apt command, how to see what options it has?
Code:
apt policy vivaldi-stable
TBH, I don't use synaptic, so cannot really comment on what you should do with it. The installed synaptic documentation basically says what you've already quoted:
Quote:
To Force the Installation of a Specific Version

Warning: The Synaptic Package Manager always selects the most applicable version available. If you force a different version from the default one, errors in the dependency handling can occur.

To force the installation of a version of package different to the default one perform the following steps:
  1. Reload the package information to be aware of the latest versions available:
    • Choose Edit → Reload Package Information from the menu.
    • Click on Reload in the toolbar.
    • Press the key combination Ctrl+R.
  2. Select the package in the package list.
  3. Choose Package → Force Version... from the menu to open a dialog with all available versions of the package.
  4. Select the version that should be marked for installation. To confirm your decision click on the button Force.
  5. Apply the marked changes to actually install the forced package version:
    • Click on Apply in the toolbar.
    • Choose Edit → Apply Marked Changes from the menu.
    • Press the key combination Ctrl+P.
  6. You will be asked for confirmation. Check the summarized changes that will be applied. To continue with the actual installation confirm the changes click on Apply
  7. During the processing of the changes you will see a progressbar. Wait until the changes have been applied. This can take some time depending on the number of changes. Afterwards you will be returned to the main window.
    Note
    The progressbar is not available on Debian system. Instead you will see a detailed terminal output.
The most up-to-date synaptic documentation probably is its README.md.

Then there's a page in Debian Wiki.

And Synaptic Howto @help.ubuntu.com (it's even translated to Portuguese, at least, partially: Como Synaptic).
 
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