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Old 01-27-2005, 03:20 PM   #1
tmadden99
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RPMs vs Source: customized installs


Being fairly new to Linux, I'm not sure of the long term effects of installing via source vs RPMs. I can do the installs either way, but am slowly realizing that the RPM database doesn't get updated with installs from source. I'm concerned that future RPM installs will complain that a package isn't installed because I did it from source instead of the RPM.

The problem became evident as we're configuring Apache for PHP, LDAP, or other options that may be disabled by default. We dl the souce, ./configure with our options, "make" and "make install", but YaST (and thus rpm) doesn't know about it and subsequent package installs complain that Apache isn't installed.

Is this just the way it is? If you choose to customize something as ubiquitous as Apache then you're off the RPM grid from then on? I've been reading about RPM and searching for ways to update the rpm database with a source install, but am striking out. The only possible solution I've seen so far is to build my RPM from the souce after I configure it, but that's a bit out of my league at this point.

I figure I gotta be missing something.

TIA.

Tim
 
Old 01-27-2005, 03:31 PM   #2
hob
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The most serious issue with compiling from source is that you then have to manually update the software as well as security and bug fixes come out. YaST, yum etc. can update all of the RPM installed software on your system with a single command.

The other issue is ensuring consistency between systems if you manually compile on each target system itself.

I'd suggest that you have a designated build system and only compile once. A piece of software called checkinstall can convert source installs into RPMs, or failing that you can copy the known-good build from the build machine to the production systems.
 
Old 01-27-2005, 03:38 PM   #3
Sepero
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Re: RPMs vs Source: customized installs

Quote:
Originally posted by tmadden99
I figure I gotta be missing something.
Nope you're not. If you wanna be 1337, and compile stuff from source, then you gotta face the consequences. And the REAL problems happen later down the road. Like when you wanna upgrade, or remove the program.

I recommend using prepackaged version of the software you want, period.
 
Old 01-27-2005, 05:03 PM   #4
__J
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there are various programs that will build rpm's ( such as checkinstall ) for you from your built source. Take a look at some of them and that might help you.
 
Old 01-27-2005, 05:47 PM   #5
Sepero
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Quote:
Originally posted by __J
there are various programs that will build rpm's ( such as checkinstall ) for you from your built source.
Good point. I was going to mention checkinstall, but sometimes programmers have "make install" do things that checkinstall doesn't catch. Also, when using it before, I once put in a package name incorrectly, and instead of giving me a second chance, it bailed completely.
Leaving all the installed files unaccounted for.

Now I go to www.apt-get.org and get a third party package if Debian doesn't have it. (which is rare)
 
Old 01-27-2005, 06:10 PM   #6
tmadden99
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Re: Re: RPMs vs Source: customized installs

Quote:
Originally posted by Sepero
Nope you're not. If you wanna be 1337, and compile stuff from source, then you gotta face the consequences. And the REAL problems happen later down the road. Like when you wanna upgrade, or remove the program.

I recommend using prepackaged version of the software you want, period.
But then, how do you customize an app (i.e. Apache) for non-default options? I want Apache to use LDAP for auth. The Apache docs (http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_ldap.html) say:

"To enable this module, LDAP support must be compiled into apr-util. This is achieved by adding the --with-ldap flag to the configure script when building Apache."

So, unless you know of a site with pre-configed RPMs, I don't see how I can use pre-pack'd.
 
Old 01-27-2005, 10:19 PM   #7
uman
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Gentoo would be perfect for you. This is exactly the reason Gentoo was invented.
 
Old 01-28-2005, 05:02 AM   #8
hob
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Gentoo is probably a great tool if you are methodical and know what you are doing. For multiple production systems it is vital that you can ensure consistency and have the facility to revert changes.

tmadden99 - have you checked that SUSE's own packages aren't compiled with LDAP etc. options already ? I know that Red Hat ship a mod_ldap package and a full set of packages for PHP alongside their Apache packages.
 
Old 01-28-2005, 07:12 AM   #9
Sepero
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Re: Re: Re: RPMs vs Source: customized installs

Quote:
Originally posted by tmadden99
But then, how do you customize an app (i.e. Apache) for non-default options?
I'd probably do it the easy way, use apt-build.
 
Old 01-28-2005, 07:21 AM   #10
__J
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yeah i agree, checkinstall is not the end all be all solution, but its about the best thing I've found for my needs. As far as make install is concerned, you can give checkinstall arguments for the make install command. ( like "checkinstall make modules_install" for kernel modules).
 
Old 01-28-2005, 07:46 AM   #11
theYinYeti
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You may be interested in my article:
http://yves.gablin.club.fr/linux/ind...ftware/install

Yves.
 
Old 01-28-2005, 03:05 PM   #12
tmadden99
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Quote:
Originally posted by hob
Gentoo is probably a great tool if you are methodical and know what you are doing. For multiple production systems it is vital that you can ensure consistency and have the facility to revert changes.

tmadden99 - have you checked that SUSE's own packages aren't compiled with LDAP etc. options already ? I know that Red Hat ship a mod_ldap package and a full set of packages for PHP alongside their Apache packages.
I've just perused the Gentoo site and am intrigued, but am also concerned about using a distro that's not officially supported by some of the apps I'm looking at.

I couldn't say for sure that SUSE's not compiled with LDAP, and that's a good point. However, there's another mod to PHP, to use ODBTP for access to a MSSQL DB, that leads me down the same path.

I've also read YinYeti's article and will consider that.

Thanks to all, and further comments are appreciated.

Tim
 
  


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