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Old 01-17-2016, 03:09 AM   #1
joeching
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Question natural-language programming language


i have developed a natural-language programming language in my software platform, ROBACUS, or robotic abacus. the two major areas that still need to be work on are:

1. doing multi-embedded IF-THEN loops, or branching.
2. built-in, self-debugging capability

once this is done, computer will play the same role as powerful machines, but instead of replacing our muscles, it will replace our brains.

i suggest we put the best linux distro on the best supercomputer, which, at this point, is mageia 5, because, since the mandrake and mandriva, this distro was the only linux that my software automation package ROBACUS was able to be installed on(with gcc3.3, own f2c, and iceWM).

i have good connection with the world's fastest computer, tianhe-2, group. if such a computer can offer an all-natural-language interface, including software development, application and maintenance, it could allow huge group of users to work together to come up with the ultimate solve-it-all computing machine.
 
Old 01-17-2016, 10:48 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeching View Post
i have developed a natural-language programming language in my software platform, ROBACUS, or robotic abacus. the two major areas that still need to be work on are:

1. doing multi-embedded IF-THEN loops, or branching.
2. built-in, self-debugging capability

once this is done, computer will play the same role as powerful machines, but instead of replacing our muscles, it will replace our brains.

i suggest we put the best linux distro on the best supercomputer, which, at this point, is mageia 5, because, since the mandrake and mandriva, this distro was the only linux that my software automation package ROBACUS was able to be installed on(with gcc3.3, own f2c, and iceWM).

i have good connection with the world's fastest computer, tianhe-2, group. if such a computer can offer an all-natural-language interface, including software development, application and maintenance, it could allow huge group of users to work together to come up with the ultimate solve-it-all computing machine.
And is there a question here, somewhere??? If you've done this, then where is it running or available for download/code review? Why post this here at all?
 
Old 01-17-2016, 10:49 AM   #3
wpeckham
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at home I speak FORTRAN

I have never seen the value in a "natural language" programming engines. Even human communication is better in something less "natural" and more structured such as ESPERANTO or 'formal' English or German.

What advantages will your engine provide over existing engines?
 
Old 01-17-2016, 11:18 AM   #4
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You can't do branching? That's 50% of the point of a program instruction.
 
Old 01-17-2016, 01:17 PM   #5
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And just noticed this in the original post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeching
because, since the mandrake and mandriva, this distro was the only linux that my software automation package ROBACUS was able to be installed on
So it's so 'advanced' that it can't be installed on ANYTHING else??? That's much like building a car that can only be driven on certain kinds of streets.
 
Old 01-18-2016, 12:04 AM   #6
joeching
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somewhere? where? why? on "software automation" on robacus

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
And is there a question here, somewhere??? If you've done this, then where is it running or available for download/code review? Why post this here at all?
the question is: is there any interest in doing some software automation, using natural language and "software robot", which is the "automation" part? while natural language is the "software" part. as from the strictest sense of computing, everything computer related, like os, system software, and all what we call software/coding/programs, are really hardware, or blackware. and all software should be understood by everybody, namely, in our native languages. in short, the natural-language programming language is where the hardware ends and software begin. in computing, we only have time to deal with human-related language, and they must be "natural".

and "natural" is only 1% native language, and 99% the "natural flow" of logic. my breakthrough is the realization that the "logic" here is not exactly based on human logic, but rather computer logic. the former is a lot of intuitions, creativities, ingenuities, innovativities etc, but all just guess work. and computer logic simply cause-and-effect, progressing in reverse for humans' benefit. it's ability to "think" is unlimited as long as computer power keeps on improving.

the software automation package, robacus.tgz, can be downloaded from www.ping-pong.net. it now can only be installed on mageia 4 and 5, using its own built-in f2c, and mageia's archived gcc3.3, and the IceWM destop(after mageia5 is installed with kde).

i posted it bcs u asked me. my hope is that i can help the mageia group to get all the linux effort to be directed back to computing and away from chasing after the toy store, microsoft, and the jewelry store, apple. linux has the potential to be the universal os on a supercomputer(i m recommending my partner's tianhe-2) and front-ended by ROBACUS.
 
Old 01-18-2016, 12:20 AM   #7
joeching
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
I have never seen the value in a "natural language" programming engines.
that's bcs u v never seen one yet. here natural, in computing, means natural, or logical, way of expression, not the haphazard way that we r taught in school. in practice, it'a a language used in the interaction between man and computer. but the computer has to lead, as humans r chaotic thinkers. put it bluntly, our brain is not designed to "think", maybe bcs we have a higher mission than just "think", mostly to exploit our fellowmen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
Even human communication is better in something less "natural" and more structured such as ESPERANTO or 'formal' English or German.
yes, when the situation is serious, we must follow the logic only computer is capable. and "structured???" -- u ll hate it... until u r mind is indoctrinated by the nat-lang to be more logical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
What advantages will your engine provide over existing engines?
what "existing engines"? the AI stuff based on our own faulty brain? all the bruteforce nonsense, that r only good for hyping?
robacus was used in the boeing computer services' supercomputer cray, and helped to solve the 3-mile island nuke accident. then it digitized and optimized the designs of the star war reactor sp100 for the ape-brain reagan, and the jupiter exploration space reactor jimo for the chimp-brain bush. and lately it's used in analysis of pingpong matches, and the 3-d design for 3d printing of the tight-fit handle of a pingpong paddle. can any of ur engines do these?
 
Old 01-18-2016, 12:29 AM   #8
joeching
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
You can't do branching? That's 50% of the point of a program instruction.
u r rite! so, thus far the program could only solve 51% of world's problem. the additional 1% is from the fact that the existing nat-lan program actually does have single-loop function. it's from seeing how tough it is to make computer do one loop that made me realized i m too old(72) for this kind of strenuous mental grinding.

we need to train someone from birth to teach(or program) the computer to do multiloop branching, so that we would not only be solve the rest of the 49%, but the other trillion problem we have never even dreamed of their existence.

note: in nat-lan programming program, all variables must be tracked and bookkept, and a new branching leads to another universe.
 
Old 01-18-2016, 12:39 AM   #9
joeching
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why mageia

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
And just noticed this in the original post:

So it's so 'advanced' that it can't be installed on ANYTHING else??? That's much like building a car that can only be driven on certain kinds of streets.
u need to read on mandrake, mandriva and mageia history. why do they have to change name do many times? bcs they died, just like linux went in a direction that almost killed ROBACUS, too. and ROBACUS is the future of computing, not linux, or the toy, windows, and jewelry, iphone.

the information superhighways were designed for mainframe and supercomputers. just as robacus has played a critical role in saving the supercomputer cray, now it and mageia r need to save the tianhe-2.

i m too busy in the next 3 years in polishing up my pingpong kungfu(pongfu) skills, rather than committing serious times to robacus.
 
Old 01-18-2016, 05:48 AM   #10
wpeckham
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clear data, please

Forgive me, but I do not read these odd little single letter phrases well: this is not twitter. IF I understand the points of the most recent posts, they are rants against anyone questioning a position that has not really been made clear.

I code in more than a dozen languages, and have been working with operating systems since 1969. During that time I have encountered many interesting language engines (translators, compilers, interpreters, and hybrid engines like the sun Java and UCSD P-systems)

I am always interested in a new engine, but every one of them needs to provide an advantage to the coder to survive. What advantage does this new engine present to us? Can you clarify the objectives of this project without insulting people or reasonable questions?

Please, if you can, try to answer in proper English without: without meaningless little contractions.
 
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Old 01-18-2016, 08:27 AM   #11
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeching View Post
the question is: is there any interest in doing some software automation, using natural language and "software robot", which is the "automation" part? while natural language is the "software" part. as from the strictest sense of computing, everything computer related, like os, system software, and all what we call software/coding/programs, are really hardware, or blackware. and all software should be understood by everybody, namely, in our native languages. in short, the natural-language programming language is where the hardware ends and software begin. in computing, we only have time to deal with human-related language, and they must be "natural".

and "natural" is only 1% native language, and 99% the "natural flow" of logic. my breakthrough is the realization that the "logic" here is not exactly based on human logic, but rather computer logic. the former is a lot of intuitions, creativities, ingenuities, innovativities etc, but all just guess work. and computer logic simply cause-and-effect, progressing in reverse for humans' benefit. it's ability to "think" is unlimited as long as computer power keeps on improving.
Interest? Sure, as soon as someone can actually make it work. If you have, step forward and get all the investors you could possibly want, if you actually have a working product.
Quote:
the software automation package, robacus.tgz, can be downloaded from www.ping-pong.net. it now can only be installed on mageia 4 and 5, using its own built-in f2c, and mageia's archived gcc3.3, and the IceWM destop(after mageia5 is installed with kde).
Again, not very advanced if it only runs on ONE version of ONE OS, with ONE version of GCC, and ONE desktop environment.
Quote:
i posted it bcs u asked me. my hope is that i can help the mageia group to get all the linux effort to be directed back to computing and away from chasing after the toy store, microsoft, and the jewelry store, apple. linux has the potential to be the universal os on a supercomputer(i m recommending my partner's tianhe-2) and front-ended by ROBACUS.
If you want the mageia group to do anything, then why aren't you email THEM about it???

And read the LQ Rules about text-speak and about not using it. If you're so 'busy', then why post this? If YOU aren't going to develop this 'wonderful' software, then why post about it at all? If you can't spell out words, form a clear sentence and not rant about things, there's not much point.

Good luck.
 
Old 01-18-2016, 08:40 AM   #12
rtmistler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeching View Post
u r rite! so, thus far the program could only solve 51% of world's problem. the additional 1% is from the fact that the existing nat-lan program actually does have single-loop function. it's from seeing how tough it is to make computer do one loop that made me realized i m too old(72) for this kind of strenuous mental grinding.

we need to train someone from birth to teach(or program) the computer to do multiloop branching, so that we would not only be solve the rest of the 49%, but the other trillion problem we have never even dreamed of their existence.

note: in nat-lan programming program, all variables must be tracked and bookkept, and a new branching leads to another universe.
Don't use text speak, that is in the LQ Rules.

At 72 you should have been exposed to programming theory by now and understand how to construct a CPU and how micro-instructions are constructed out of things like NAND gates and so forth. If not, then perhaps you ought to learn about basic computing theory. If you feel at the age of 72 that you are beyond learning, then I suggest you let this subject lie, because I'd think you'd be old enough and experienced enough to realize that raising talk about a subject and having no real follow-up on it except looking to others to develop your concepts is not an approach which people prefer. I guess at 50 I'm maybe too young to understand. But if I'm ever guilty of complaining that I'm too old to learn, there are several people who have been instructed to point that lunacy out to me. Likewise they feel the same way and have issued the same directives in reverse.
 
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Old 01-19-2016, 02:16 AM   #13
joeching
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computer users vs computer tool makers

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
Forgive me, but I do not read these odd little single letter phrases well: this is not twitter. IF I understand the points of the most recent posts, they are rants against anyone questioning a position that has not really been made clear.

I code in more than a dozen languages, and have been working with operating systems since 1969. During that time I have encountered many interesting language engines (translators, compilers, interpreters, and hybrid engines like the sun Java and UCSD P-systems)

I am always interested in a new engine, but every one of them needs to provide an advantage to the coder to survive. What advantage does this new engine present to us? Can you clarify the objectives of this project without insulting people or reasonable questions?

Please, if you can, try to answer in proper English without: without meaningless little contractions.
i was trained as a physicist and a nuclear engineer. throughout my education in my major, we were discouraged(1960-69) to learn computer programming by the professors since they consider it to be too simple for us elites. so, my first course in fortran was around 1970 as my ph.d. thesis work required it.

right after the 1st class, i completely changed my mind, and in my thesis work i spent so much of our nuclear engineering department's allocation of computer money on the ibm 91 that my thesis adviser accused me of trying to send him to jail by piling up couple million dollars of debt to the computer department.

and when my professor finally was so impressed with the productivity using software automation that he asked me whether he should also learn to program. i replied:"just wait until i make it possible to program with english."

so, i am a user of computer. and u guys are the tool makers for using computer -- o.s. system and utility software. and what i m posting here are "rant" on why in the world u guys have not yet finish the job.

while working with boeing computer services, offering to the nuclear industry what u guys r calling "cloud computing", my group was compared to (1) write our own editor(vi and emacs r a scandal from a users' point of view) (2) make our own diagnoser, what u called debugger, and (3) finally, our natural-language programming program, all have backup in verbatim recording of the user and computer, in what we called "software robot", which complete the automation picture by being able to perform the task, or its modification, that was recorded earlier.

the software automation in robacus is really a self-service cloud computer offering, thus far, only catered to the nuke industry and my own pingpong hoby, 3-d modelling etc.

it's going to be a long way for us to have a meeting of the minds.anyway, here are some of the introduction and documents on ROBACUS(originally called ROBOCOM):
(I can set up a live demo either thru VNC or teamviewer if u r interested)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhNe1l6spc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr91NedvVV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EKZNTOK6vM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXRn-agiIeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_XcpqtU6-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9X4iS6xW-I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNYeaOj-6Ak

http://ping-pong.net/namspe.html
http://www.ping-pong.net/usehow.html
http://ping-pong.net/usespe.html
http://ping-pong.net/edihow.html
http://ping-pong.net/edispe.html
http://ping-pong.net/diagno.html
http://ping-pong.net/diahow.html
http://ping-pong.net/natspe.html
http://ping-pong.net/sofspe.html

http://ping-pong.net/natmod.html
http://ping-pong.net/spanuc.html

http://ping-pong.net/comlan.html
http://ping-pong.net/comeng.html
http://ping-pong.net/unila0.html
http://ping-pong.net/baseng.html

http://ping-pong.net/chiroy.html
http://ping-pong.net/chiroa.html
http://ping-pong.net/chirow.html
http://ping-pong.net/engcom.html

major program components of ROBACUS:

iolupd = c-language program(with xwindows system) for i/o and windows management

na1upd = natural-language programming language in fortran, interpreted by f2c
edeupd = robotic abacus(e filename to edit filename) enter "h" to get help
dieupd = diagnostic debugger
useupd = user interface controller
 
Old 01-19-2016, 02:26 AM   #14
joeching
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i can help to coordinate, but not participate in it in next 3 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Interest? Sure, as soon as someone can actually make it work. If you have, step forward and get all the investors you could possibly want, if you actually have a working product.

Again, not very advanced if it only runs on ONE version of ONE OS, with ONE version of GCC, and ONE desktop environment.

If you want the mageia group to do anything, then why aren't you email THEM about it???

And read the LQ Rules about text-speak and about not using it. If you're so 'busy', then why post this? If YOU aren't going to develop this 'wonderful' software, then why post about it at all? If you can't spell out words, form a clear sentence and not rant about things, there's not much point.

Good luck.
i v already made a fortune with it at 41(that's 31 years ago). it's getting tougher and tougher to keep up with maintaining it in a working condition. but everybody seems to be going in the other direction, away from computing, except the mageia group, whom i would sure donate some money to, as they improved on mageia 5 and made robacus installation a much less of a struggle.

it's not i dont use the latest gcc. it's that it cant compile my f2c programs.

anyway, i ll quit soon if i m not welcomed. (not that robacus is not important, but i got something much more important and fun to do -- pingpong kungfu)
 
Old 01-19-2016, 06:19 AM   #15
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giving up now

I would really like to see this new engine you almost describe.
I am not willing to continue to try to read your misuse of the english language to accomplish that goal. When you have something that will run on more Linux distributions, and that actually works for something, please do come back and make an announcement using actual words.

I doubt if someone can generate a 'natural language' engine that is any good, if they seem unable to learn to use their own language. I am willing to be proven wrong in that, please try.
 
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