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Old 11-18-2016, 09:29 PM   #1
browny_amiga
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My WTF moment today: Where is the .deb package for Joomla????


I have used joomla on hosted environments for years, but wanted to set it up on a Debian box and can't get over the WTF


You have searched for packages that names contain joomla in all suites, all sections, and all architectures.

Sorry, your search gave no results

when I find that there is no package for Debian, neither for Ubuntu.
The installation instructions don't mention it, and are about 10 times longer than a simple apt-get install joomla.
Considering that every other tool like that has a .deb package for easy install and maintenance, what is going on here? Is there a license restriction in Joomla that forbids distros to package it?
I hate spending extra time for something that should be automatic, that is why I love package management systems like apt-get / dpkg, generally I don't install anything on my boxes that is not packaged and so in the end, I end up having to create a package myself.
A P.I.T.A. hassle. So, furthermore nobody seems to talk about the lack of packages neither, stranger than strange.
 
Old 11-19-2016, 12:54 AM   #2
cliffordw
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Hi there,

Do you have examples of other similar tools that are packaged as .debs? I'd be very curious to see how they do that, and how they save you 10 minutes. In particular, do such packages just install the software (equivalent to untar/unzip-ing the code), or do they do more, like pick a database engine (PostgreSQL/MySQL/etc), create a database, pick a web server (Apache/NGINX/etc), and configure the web server (including the URL you want to use), etc?

Regards,

Clifford
 
Old 11-20-2016, 02:33 PM   #3
BW-userx
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maybe install from their webpage
https://www.joomla.org/

as far as this goes,
Quote:
Considering that every other tool like that has a .deb package for easy install and maintenance, what is going on here? Is there a license restriction in Joomla that forbids distros to package it?
you'd have to take that up with the Dirtos managers

Last edited by BW-userx; 11-20-2016 at 02:45 PM.
 
Old 11-21-2016, 02:22 PM   #4
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browny_amiga View Post
Considering that every other tool like that has a .deb package
like what? content management systems?
in my experience they live in a seperate universe and are rarely packaged for distros, but installation instructions usually exist (as you rightly pointed out).
i don't know why it is like that. my guess, it would be too much work to maintain it.
the question is valid, the whining isn't.
just go with the realities.

Last edited by ondoho; 11-21-2016 at 02:23 PM.
 
Old 11-21-2016, 05:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browny_amiga View Post
The installation instructions don't mention it, and are about 10 times longer than a simple apt-get install joomla.
Yeah, free software sucks

Want fries with that? Sheesh.
Instant gratification takes too long.
https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/

Last edited by Habitual; 11-21-2016 at 05:49 PM.
 
Old 11-21-2016, 06:01 PM   #6
notKlaatu
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Drupal and Wordpress are both packaged by Fedora, so the idea is not without precedence. I used to use those packages for installs at my old job as a matter of course.

However, a manual install really isn't that outrageous either, and arguably more practical.
 
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Old 11-26-2016, 07:07 PM   #7
browny_amiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
like what? content management systems?
in my experience they live in a seperate universe and are rarely packaged for distros, but installation instructions usually exist (as you rightly pointed out).
i don't know why it is like that. my guess, it would be too much work to maintain it.
the question is valid, the whining isn't.
just go with the realities.
Well, let's take the other most used CMS out there, wordpress, when I install that, it does all this:

apt-get install wordpress
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
libapache2-mod-php5 libjs-cropper libjs-mediaelement libjs-prototype libjs-scriptaculous libonig2 libphp-phpmailer
libqdbm14 php-getid3 php5-cli php5-common php5-gd php5-json php5-mysql php5-readline wordpress-l10n
wordpress-theme-twentyfifteen
Suggested packages:
php-pear php5-user-cache mysql-server
The following NEW packages will be installed:
libapache2-mod-php5 libjs-cropper libjs-mediaelement libjs-prototype libjs-scriptaculous libonig2 libphp-phpmailer
libqdbm14 php-getid3 php5-cli php5-common php5-gd php5-json php5-mysql php5-readline wordpress wordpress-l10n
wordpress-theme-twentyfifteen
0 upgraded, 18 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/14.2 MB of archives.
After this operation, 72.4 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
Selecting previously unselected package libonig2:amd64.
(Reading database ... 248897 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../libonig2_5.9.5-3.2_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libonig2:amd64 (5.9.5-3.2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libqdbm14.
Preparing to unpack .../libqdbm14_1.8.78-5+b1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libqdbm14 (1.8.78-5+b1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package php5-common.
Preparing to unpack .../php5-common_5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking php5-common (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package php5-json.
Preparing to unpack .../php5-json_1.3.6-1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking php5-json (1.3.6-1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package php5-cli.
Preparing to unpack .../php5-cli_5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking php5-cli (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libapache2-mod-php5.
Preparing to unpack .../libapache2-mod-php5_5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking libapache2-mod-php5 (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libjs-prototype.
Preparing to unpack .../libjs-prototype_1.7.1-3_all.deb ...
Unpacking libjs-prototype (1.7.1-3) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libjs-scriptaculous.
Preparing to unpack .../libjs-scriptaculous_1.9.0-2_all.deb ...
Unpacking libjs-scriptaculous (1.9.0-2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libjs-cropper.
Preparing to unpack .../libjs-cropper_1.2.2-1_all.deb ...
Unpacking libjs-cropper (1.2.2-1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libjs-mediaelement.
Preparing to unpack .../libjs-mediaelement_2.15.1+dfsg-1_all.deb ...
Unpacking libjs-mediaelement (2.15.1+dfsg-1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package libphp-phpmailer.
Preparing to unpack .../libphp-phpmailer_5.2.9+dfsg-2+deb8u1_all.deb ...
Unpacking libphp-phpmailer (5.2.9+dfsg-2+deb8u1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package php-getid3.
Preparing to unpack .../php-getid3_1.9.8-3_all.deb ...
Unpacking php-getid3 (1.9.8-3) ...
Selecting previously unselected package php5-gd.
Preparing to unpack .../php5-gd_5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking php5-gd (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package php5-mysql.
Preparing to unpack .../php5-mysql_5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking php5-mysql (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package php5-readline.
Preparing to unpack .../php5-readline_5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking php5-readline (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package wordpress-theme-twentyfifteen.
Preparing to unpack .../wordpress-theme-twentyfifteen_4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11_all.deb ...
Unpacking wordpress-theme-twentyfifteen (4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11) ...
Selecting previously unselected package wordpress.
Preparing to unpack .../wordpress_4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11_all.deb ...
Unpacking wordpress (4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11) ...
Selecting previously unselected package wordpress-l10n.
Preparing to unpack .../wordpress-l10n_4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11_all.deb ...
Unpacking wordpress-l10n (4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.0.2-5) ...
Setting up libonig2:amd64 (5.9.5-3.2) ...
Setting up libqdbm14 (1.8.78-5+b1) ...
Setting up php5-common (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
php5_invoke: Enable module pdo for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module pdo for cli SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module opcache for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module opcache for cli SAPI
Setting up php5-json (1.3.6-1) ...
php5_invoke: Enable module json for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module json for cli SAPI
Setting up php5-cli (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
update-alternatives: using /usr/bin/php5 to provide /usr/bin/php (php) in auto mode
update-alternatives: using /usr/bin/phar5 to provide /usr/bin/phar (phar) in auto mode
Setting up libapache2-mod-php5 (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
apache2_invoke: Enable module php5
Setting up libjs-prototype (1.7.1-3) ...
Setting up libjs-scriptaculous (1.9.0-2) ...
Setting up libjs-cropper (1.2.2-1) ...
Setting up libjs-mediaelement (2.15.1+dfsg-1) ...
Setting up libphp-phpmailer (5.2.9+dfsg-2+deb8u1) ...
Setting up php-getid3 (1.9.8-3) ...
Setting up php5-gd (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
php5_invoke: Enable module gd for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module gd for cli SAPI
Setting up php5-mysql (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
php5_invoke: Enable module mysql for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module mysql for cli SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module mysqli for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module mysqli for cli SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module pdo_mysql for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module pdo_mysql for cli SAPI
Setting up php5-readline (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
php5_invoke: Enable module readline for apache2 SAPI
php5_invoke: Enable module readline for cli SAPI
Setting up wordpress-theme-twentyfifteen (4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11) ...
Setting up wordpress (4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11) ...
Added to /var/lib/wordpress/wp-content/themes: twentyfifteen
Added to /var/lib/wordpress/wp-content/plugins: akismet index.php
Added to /var/lib/wordpress/wp-content/languages: admin-ar.mo admin-bs_BA.mo admin-ca.mo admin-cy.mo admin-da_DK.mo admin-de_DE.mo admin-el.mo admin-es_ES.mo admin-es_PE.mo admin-et.mo admin-eu.mo admin-fa_IR.mo admin-fi.mo admin-fr_FR.mo admin-gl_ES.mo admin-he_IL.mo admin-hr.mo admin-it_IT.mo admin-ja.mo admin-ko_KR.mo admin-my_MM.mo admin-network-ar.mo admin-network-bs_BA.mo admin-network-ca.mo admin-network-cy.mo admin-network-da_DK.mo admin-network-de_DE.mo admin-network-el.mo admin-network-es_ES.mo admin-network-es_PE.mo admin-network-et.mo admin-network-fa_IR.mo admin-network-fi.mo admin-network-fr_FR.mo admin-network-gl_ES.mo admin-network-he_IL.mo admin-network-hr.mo admin-network-it_IT.mo admin-network-ja.mo admin-network-ko_KR.mo admin-network-my_MM.mo admin-network-ru_RU.mo admin-network-sk_SK.mo admin-network-sl_SI.mo admin-network-sq.mo admin-network-sr_RS.mo admin-network-sv_SE.mo admin-network-ug_CN.mo admin-network-zh_CN.mo admin-network-zh_TW.mo admin-ru_RU.mo admin-sk_SK.mo admin-sl_SI.mo admin-sq.mo admin-sr_RS.mo admin-sv_SE.mo admin-ug_CN.mo admin-zh_CN.mo admin-zh_TW.mo ar.mo bg_BG.mo bn_BD.mo bs_BA.mo ca.mo ckb.mo continents-cities-bg_BG.mo continents-cities-bs_BA.mo continents-cities-cs_CZ.mo continents-cities-cy.mo continents-cities-da_DK.mo continents-cities-de_DE.mo continents-cities-el.mo continents-cities-en_CA.mo continents-cities-es_PE.mo continents-cities-et.mo continents-cities-eu.mo continents-cities-fa_IR.mo continents-cities-fi.mo continents-cities-fr_FR.mo continents-cities-gd.mo continents-cities-he_IL.mo continents-cities-hr.mo continents-cities-hu_HU.mo continents-cities-it_IT.mo continents-cities-ja.mo continents-cities-ka_GE.mo continents-cities-ko_KR.mo continents-cities-lv.mo continents-cities-mk_MK.mo continents-cities-my_MM.mo continents-cities-nb_NO.mo continents-cities-nn_NO.mo continents-cities-pl_PL.mo continents-cities-pt_BR.mo continents-cities-pt_PT.mo continents-cities-ro_RO.mo continents-cities-ru_RU.mo continents-cities-sk_SK.mo continents-cities-sl_SI.mo continents-cities-sq.mo continents-cities-sr_RS.mo continents-cities-su_ID.mo continents-cities-sv_SE.mo continents-cities-ta_LK.mo continents-cities-tr_TR.mo continents-cities-ug_CN.mo continents-cities-vi.mo continents-cities-zh_CN.mo continents-cities-zh_TW.mo cs_CZ.mo cy.mo da_DK.mo de_DE.mo el.mo en_CA.mo eo.mo es_CL.mo es_ES.mo es_PE.mo et.mo eu.mo fa_IR.mo fi.mo fr_FR.mo gd.mo gl_ES.mo he_IL.mo hr.mo hu_HU.mo id_ID.mo it_IT.mo ja.mo jv_ID.mo ka_GE.mo ko_KR.mo lv.mo mk_MK.mo ms_MY.mo my_MM.mo nb_NO.mo nl.mo nl_NL.mo pl_PL.mo pt_BR.mo pt_PT.mo ro_RO.mo ru_RU.mo ru_UA.mo si_LK.mo sk_SK.mo sl_SI.mo sq.mo sr_RS.mo su_ID.mo sv_SE.mo sw.mo ta_LK.mo th.mo tr_TR.mo ug_CN.mo uk.mo ur.mo vi.mo zh_CN.mo zh_HK.mo zh_TW.mo
Setting up wordpress-l10n (4.1+dfsg-1+deb8u11) ...
Processing triggers for libc-bin (2.19-18+deb8u6) ...
Processing triggers for libapache2-mod-php5 (5.6.27+dfsg-0+deb8u1) ...
--------------------------------------

Now this saves a lot of time and also satisfies the policy that nothing can be installed on a system that is dominated by a package management system like Debian.
You can call justified curiousity or criticism whining, belitteling somebody else's problems and concerns as meaningless. But since Joomla is next to wordpress the most used CMS in the world, it is pretty odd. Especially, since I could not find any reference to why there was no package anywhere. With millions of users, I seem to be the first that ever wondered why there were packages for everything, but not Joomla. I still think there might be a licensing issue, a solid reason why it does not exist.
Debian has a huge software library available via packages in its repositories, and even much more obscure software is maintained and provided in packages.
 
Old 11-26-2016, 07:12 PM   #8
browny_amiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitual View Post
Yeah, free software sucks

Want fries with that? Sheesh.
Instant gratification takes too long.
https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/
Huh? What are you talking about?
Why do you think that I think that free software sucks? Assuming that a little criticism of it means that I totally, as a whole reject it all? I have been using Linux since 2002 and all my main systems run on it, I would very much state that free software rules and beats proprietary any day of the week.
 
Old 11-26-2016, 07:50 PM   #9
rokytnji
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Well. I never turned on a computer till 2008.

So might help or not.

https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Installing_Joomla

Ubuntu instructions

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Joomla

You are not the 1st to complain off this lack of debs.

https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1758268

link

Like I said. I am not as experienced as you.

Quote:
I have been using Linux since 2002
In case you need something

Quote:
there are no support anymore for all my joomla extensions. use it at your own risk!
https://www.z-index.net/en/downloads.html

I have no dog in this hunt. So that is best I can do for you.

Last edited by rokytnji; 11-26-2016 at 07:57 PM.
 
Old 11-27-2016, 12:39 AM   #10
browny_amiga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Well. I never turned on a computer till 2008.

So might help or not.

https://docs.joomla.org/J3.x:Installing_Joomla

Ubuntu instructions

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Joomla

You are not the 1st to complain off this lack of debs.

https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1758268

link

Like I said. I am not as experienced as you.



In case you need something



https://www.z-index.net/en/downloads.html

I have no dog in this hunt. So that is best I can do for you.
Thanks for the links, I already found these of course. They are just instructions for manual installs, they don't even show how to make a package. Installing manually without informing the package manager on an Ubuntu and Debian system can cause all kinds of problems and is not recommended:
First of all, the system will not be able to provide updates.
Second, the system will not even know these files exist and they can be overwritten at any time, destroying functionality (the package manager keeps track of all installed files and to which package they belong, if another package wants to overwrite a file that belongs to another package, the package manager will alert you and block the change)
Third, uninstalling is not easily possible, you have to rely on the manual install providing an uninstaller, which might be better or worse, but usually nonstandard.
Then you won't know if it deinstalls it properly and clean, a apt-get purge [package name] where it makes sure all the configs get erased are not possible.

Also, manual installs don't know dependencies. If you change a lib version in a Debian or Ubuntu system, it will notify you that software xzy depends on that lib version and that you will break it, it will block the change on that basis. A manual install never handles anything like this.
A manual install might also go and overwrite system files or libraries, creating havok with the rest of the installed software.

There is a way though to create a package before installing it, with checkinstall, but my point was that why do all the extra effort, having to do 20 steps, when you can just do one, called apt-get install package-xzy?

What are the advantages of a manual install in your opinion?
 
Old 11-27-2016, 06:35 AM   #12
cliffordw
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by browny_amiga View Post
Installing manually without informing the package manager on an Ubuntu and Debian system can cause all kinds of problems and is not recommended:
First of all, the system will not be able to provide updates.
Second, the system will not even know these files exist and they can be overwritten at any time, destroying functionality (the package manager keeps track of all installed files and to which package they belong, if another package wants to overwrite a file that belongs to another package, the package manager will alert you and block the change)
Third, uninstalling is not easily possible, you have to rely on the manual install providing an uninstaller, which might be better or worse, but usually nonstandard.
Then you won't know if it deinstalls it properly and clean, a apt-get purge [package name] where it makes sure all the configs get erased are not possible.
Really?? I must be a little rusty on Joomla. Last time I installed it, the files were extracted from a zip/tar into my web server's DocumentRoot (or subdirectory). No package should overwrite that, and uninstalling was as simple as removing the files again....
 
Old 11-27-2016, 07:11 AM   #13
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yak-shaving

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffordw View Post
Hi,

Really?? I must be a little rusty on Joomla. Last time I installed it, the files were extracted from a zip/tar into my web server's DocumentRoot (or subdirectory). No package should overwrite that, and uninstalling was as simple as removing the files again....
Yawn. You are not rusty.
unarchive, edit some-config.php, add mysql user, done.

Literally, minutes to do it by hand.

What I hear from the OP is he doesn't know how or have time for this process or just wants to whine there's no .deb?
Can't be sure.

Done here.
 
Old 11-27-2016, 09:58 AM   #14
browny_amiga
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I see here my attempts to point out the usefulness and importance of a package management system are pointless here.
 
Old 11-27-2016, 12:50 PM   #15
BW-userx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by browny_amiga View Post
What are the advantages of a manual install in your opinion?
the only one I can think of is. If it is NOT in your repo then you can still fall back to manually installing your software. Which of course now relies on you to keep it up to date as you want to.


Because your repo takes care of everything for you. That is why they invented it.
 
  


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