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Old 02-25-2018, 12:43 PM   #16
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave@burn-it.co.uk View Post
They are not zipped.
Really???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML

First part of that article:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia Article
Office Open XML (also informally known as OOXML or Microsoft Open XML (MOX)[3]) is a zipped, XML-based file format developed by Microsoft for representing spreadsheets, charts, presentations and word processing documents. The format was initially standardized by Ecma (as ECMA-376), and by the ISO and IEC (as ISO/IEC 29500) in later versions.
XML is *FAR* more significant.
 
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Old 02-25-2018, 01:15 PM   #17
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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That is WRONG.
XML is most definitely NOT zipped by default.

https://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_whatis.asp

One of the design criteria for it was that it should be human readable as well as machine readable.

Last edited by dave@burn-it.co.uk; 02-25-2018 at 01:16 PM.
 
Old 02-25-2018, 02:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave@burn-it.co.uk View Post
That is WRONG.
XML is most definitely NOT zipped by default.

https://www.w3schools.com/XML/xml_whatis.asp
One of the design criteria for it was that it should be human readable as well as machine readable.
C'mon...are you honestly splitting hairs again? You do know everyone can read the previous posts, right??

DavidMCcann said in post #14 "The Open Document format used by LibreOffice and its imitation used by Microsoft stores data in zipped archives which contain the text marked up with XML"

You responded with "They are not zipped."

Anyone who is paying even the slightest bit of attention can follow the flow and logic of that conversation and what was said. DavidMCcann SPECIFICALLY SAID it was the format used by Libreoffice and the bastardized version Microsoft created, and YOU stated that they weren't. No one said XML was zipped...it was said that the MICROSOFT VERSION IS. You claimed it wasn't, and you were wrong, and now you're doubling-down.

Last edited by TB0ne; 02-25-2018 at 02:59 PM.
 
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:33 PM   #19
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I never said XML files were zipped: obviously the configuration ones (as in Xfce) aren't. But the Open Document Format is. Use your file manager, navigate to any .odt file, right-click and choose "open with archive manager" and you can see for yourself! Incidentally, that's useful if you get a corrupted ODT that won't load: the XML-marked text in the archive is a nightmare to clean up, but at least it's accessible.
 
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Old 02-27-2018, 09:13 AM   #20
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Where's the argument coming from, gentlemen? These forums ought to be "a model of decorum and tranquility," don't you agree?

XML is a standard representation for just-about anything. If accompanied by a "schema" (and there are several flavors of these), any document can be "validated" against it, "queried," and "transformed" into something else, all without custom programming. Both Microsoft and OO did as a matter of course supply schemas of various kinds to describe their XML formats.

(Incidentally, government archivists were the major source of pressure compelling the vendors to do this, and to assist in the conversion of public documents which had previously been encoded using proprietary binary-only formats. There was a very-legitimate concern that the archives could otherwise become unreadable.)

Because XML documents tend to be large and because they do compress well, it is common to see (usually ...) gzip compression applied to them, and many XML-handling libraries will simply detect this and Do The Right Thing.™ If the incoming file has the "magic bytes" which indicate that it is compressed, they will simply (and, transparently) decompress it as they go. Likewise, they can write out compressed files, compressing them as they go. Because the XML format is so "wordy" and "redundant," very high compression ratios can be trivially achieved. File-sizes of document files are comparable to the old proprietary binary formats thanks to this effect.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-27-2018 at 09:18 AM.
 
Old 02-27-2018, 10:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Where's the argument coming from, gentlemen? These forums ought to be "a model of decorum and tranquility," don't you agree?

XML is a standard representation for just-about anything. If accompanied by a "schema" (and there are several flavors of these), any document can be "validated" against it, "queried," and "transformed" into something else, all without custom programming. Both Microsoft and OO did as a matter of course supply schemas of various kinds to describe their XML formats.

(Incidentally, government archivists were the major source of pressure compelling the vendors to do this, and to assist in the conversion of public documents which had previously been encoded using proprietary binary-only formats. There was a very-legitimate concern that the archives could otherwise become unreadable.)

Because XML documents tend to be large and because they do compress well, it is common to see (usually ...) gzip compression applied to them, and many XML-handling libraries will simply detect this and Do The Right Thing. If the incoming file has the "magic bytes" which indicate that it is compressed, they will simply (and, transparently) decompress it as they go. Likewise, they can write out compressed files, compressing them as they go. Because the XML format is so "wordy" and "redundant," very high compression ratios can be trivially achieved. File-sizes of document files are comparable to the old proprietary binary formats thanks to this effect.
Agree totally; no one has any issues with this except dave@burn-it.co.uk, apparently. While XML can be a P.I.T.A to deal with sometimes (like, say, when a publisher 'enhances' it for some otherworldly reason), it's easy to code for and highly portable.
 
  


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