Choosing distro after developing "Kernel-update-phobia" ... ?! ...

mind_exploit · 02-05-2013, 05:49 PM

Hello, there ...

Two days ago the kernel on my Ubuntu 12.04, 64bit, updated from 3.2.36 to 3.2.37 ... or something like this, and after I did reboot - I had no video ... just purple screen and no login screen. The logs said that the nouveau driver could not be loaded. I have NVidia graphic card, so I assume that after the update the driver for it got broken, and because it disables the nouveau driver - the last one could not be loaded too ...

This happens on almost every distro I've used. I really thought that it won't happen this time, cause the NVidia driver was installed from repo, and not from source or some deb file.
But it happened ...

And now - can you recommend me a distro that won't have this problem? ... I'd prefer LTS versions, but as I see - only Ubuntu has ones. And I really don't wont to worry every time I see new kernel version

...
I really don't ...

Thanks in advance

ShadowCat8 · 02-05-2013, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mind_exploit

This happens on almost every distro I've used. I really thought that it won't happen this time, cause the NVidia driver was installed from repo, and not from source or some deb file.
But it happened ...

You are correct! And, it is not the distro, per se, that creates these issues as much as the specific drivers for nVidia *and* ATI graphics cards. The drivers have to be keyed to the exact kernel version unless you go completely "low-tech" and choose "VGA", but then you won't be doing much gaming.

The better way to look at it is: If you have to update your kernel (which at some point, we all do), be ready to update your video drivers, your entire batch of X11 drivers and perhaps Mesa, too.

Or, even better, as the Gentoo guys point out often enough, you want to run "revdep-rebuild" (or whatever your distro's library dependency checker is... In Ubuntu, I believe it's "apt-get -f check") after *ANY* major update. It's just part of making sure that everything is *still* working as expected after changes to the system.

HTH. Let us know.

snowday · 02-05-2013, 07:44 PM

You can choose your old kernel from the GRUB boot menu, that should get you back to a working system.

I am not an Nvidia expert so I will let another user assist you with that issue. I'm sure there is an easy workaround, because Nvidia hardware is so common.

descendant_command · 02-05-2013, 08:14 PM

Debian with the nvidia-kernel-dkms packages avoids this, as it updates the kernel modules automatically after any kernel upgrade. Don't know if ubuntu has these, but I can't think of a reason why not.
You can also use any of the installed kernels without reconfiguring the video each time you boot a different one.

mind_exploit · 02-06-2013, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snowpine

You can choose your old kernel from the GRUB boot menu, that should get you back to a working system.

That's the first thing I tried ... didn't work

... can't get to login screen no matter what kernel I choose

...

So, will I be right if I say that the correct process will be:
1. Install the new kernel.
2. Install the NVidia driver again.
3. Reboot.

and I shouldn't meet this problem? ...

PS: Btw, is Ubuntu the only distro with LTS versions? ...

Philip Lacroix · 02-06-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mind_exploit

Btw, is Ubuntu the only distro with LTS versions? ...

You might want to consider Debian: the stable distribution is rock solid and is supported for one year after the next stable is released. Considering that a new stable is usually released about every two years, this gives a three-year support. Ok, you are not going to have really new software (only security updates are released) but it is thoroughly tested, and you'll get an extremely solid and secure distro :-)

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/de...en.html#s3.1.3

Moreover, if you absolutely need a newer version of a package, you can add the "backports" section to your sources: it contains many packages coming from the testing (or even unstable) distributions, recompiled for the stable (a newer kernel for example, or libreoffice,...). Sometimes a package might show incompatibilities with already installed ones, but I usually had good results.

backports-master.debian.org
ftp://debian.cs.binghamton.edu/debia...rts/pool/main/

Anyway, I also use Debian testing which is really stable in fact, and mine never got broken with updates: this could happen, but it *doesn't* happen in stable :-)

The Ubuntu LTS distribution is based on Debian testing and sometimes unstable too:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS

And regarding a possible 5-year support for Debian:

http://lists.debian.org/debian-secur.../msg00029.html

Ok, I'm a Debian fan ;-)

Kind regards,
Philip

rokytnji · 02-06-2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Ok, I'm a Debian fan ;-)

Me also.

Code:

$cat /etc/issue.net
Welcome to antiX. Powered by Debian Testing.
$ inxi -F
CPU~Dual core Intel Pentium Dual CPU E2160 (-MCP-) clocked at Min:1200.000Mhz Max:1800.000Mhz Kernel~3.7-4.towo-siduction-amd64 x86_64 Up~17:55 Mem~344.5/1982.3MB HDD~80.0GB(-) Procs~89 Client~Shell inxi~1.8.34  
System:    Host: bikertest2 Kernel: 3.7-4.towo-siduction-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit) 
           Desktop: Fluxbox 1.3.2 Distro: antiX-base-amd64 Edelweißpiraten 07 November 2012
Graphics:  Card: Intel 82Q35 Express Integrated Graphics Controller 
           X.Org: 1.12.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1600x900@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Q35 GLX Version: 1.4 Mesa 8.0.5

Not LTS. Rolling release instead. No need for reinstall. I run AntiX 8.5 with current kernels and applications on other gear I own.

mind_exploit · 02-06-2013, 12:09 PM

Well, I don't care about rolling release or LTS so much, as long as the problem with something-breaks-after-kernel-update ...

Also - I don't want i to be Debian (for the moment I'm with crunchbang) cause it lacks sooo many features, and also because it uses very old packages. I'm on Toshiba laptop and plenty of things don't work. Like the function keys.

So, I need:
1. New packages.
2. Get rid of the problem with something-breaks-after-kernel-update.

But thanks for your advices

... I appreciate them

...

snowday · 02-06-2013, 12:44 PM

If you are looking for distro recommendations; maybe Mint? They have a reputation for smoothing over some of Ubuntu's rough edges.

Janus_Hyperion · 02-06-2013, 01:26 PM

I would recommend trying Linux Mint. There are hardly any kernel updates other than security fixes. The system, once installed, changes very little as far as I know.

TobiSGD · 02-06-2013, 02:20 PM

You have the solution right in your signature: Slackware. The kernel will only be updated if and when you want it.

ShadowCat8 · 02-06-2013, 03:01 PM

Okay,

Well, of the answers I have seen here, it seems that descendant_command was the only one who tried answering both the question and the problem.

And, in response to the question that descendant_command left (regarding whether or not you can use DKMS with Ubuntu), here is the post on the Ubuntu forums for installing and using the DKMS module with nVidia drivers.

And, as was pointed out above, the very first paragraph of that post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Npl @ Ubuntuforums.org

I figured out the last days how to correctly setup DKMS for newer Versions of the NVidia-Driver. In case you dont know, DKMS is a nifty little system that will ensure you dont run into trouble if you install a new kernel. Running a new Kernel requires ALL modules to be recompiled, and in the case of propietary drivers (ie drivers you dint install through apt-get) this task is left to you.

@mind_exploit: Looks like DKMS is the answer to the problem of "something-breaks-after-kernel-update" with nVidia drivers.

HTH. Let us know.

chrism01 · 02-06-2013, 05:58 PM

Well, Centos is definitely an LTS type (free rebuild of RHEL) and I don't remember having an issue with upgrades of the kernel.

mind_exploit · 02-11-2013, 09:43 AM

Btw, could the problem be that I was using the new, experimental, NVidia driver - version 310? ... which was too new ... and so - when the new kernel got installed - the headers became incompatible with the 310 driver anymore? or something like this?
And if I was using the stable one - version 173 - then it would be OK? ...

DavidMcCann · 02-11-2013, 12:46 PM

My approach has always been to block automatic updating. I used to use Fedora, which does so many updates it's almost like a rolling release: if you let it. I only installed security updates and checked those to discard the ones only needed for a server.