Warranty ? I offer a handshake warranty of ................ if anything goes wrong in 7 days i will replace it for FREE with another pc of equal or better hardware, if you hate the OS you can apply the cash u spent towards a windows pc
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I expected nothing less from you k3lt01.
Where was I bragging? The list of qualifications are requirements for a law license--and you requested proof of my legal field knowledge. In Texas, you must hold an undergraduate degree to be admitted into law school. To take the bar exam, you must graduate from an accredited law school. To become a member of the Texas State Bar, you must pass the State Bar Exam and pass the MPRE. None of that list is "bragging" inasmuch as any licensed attorney in Texas may say the same--dates notwithstanding. Without question, had I left off one of those items, you would have played "gotcha" by trying to say that "if you were a real attorney, you would know you have to have X as a requirement." You want to play a game where you define the rules, continue to move the goal posts, and continue to proclaim that I am the one being unreasonable. To PCGUY760: As much as k3lt01 will love to twist this into a "see he's squirming"--I cannot give you a definitive "yes" or "no" answer. The rules of professional responsibility preclude me from doing so. If you care to review them: Model Rules of Professional Conduct. In the interest of full disclosure, that is the "model" rule set--each state tweaks changes/adds/removes some to apply to their attorneys. Quote:
Erase Windows: you can do whatever you want with the hardware once legal title passes to you (i.e. you pay for it) Install MINT or UBUNTU: same as immediately above What you didn't say was "sell" though I obviously understand you want to do that. As a practical matter, you could avoid all the licensing issues by charging strictly for the hardware. In other words, the invoice/receipt you provide to the customer does not list any software as contributing to the cost of sale. If you feel you must list software as a component on the invoice, then GPL-licensed software may be sold for a profit--as stated by the authors of the GPL. That "GPL-licensed software" phrase is important. What others have alluded to (without explicitly mentioning) is that "Linux Mint" and "Ubuntu" are collections of components. Some of those components are proprietary--using restricted licenses. If your invoice explicitly identifies a proprietary component with an associated cost, then the sale must conform with the licensing requirements of that component. If you only list components that are GPL-licensed, then you are only selling GPL-licensed components--any other components are being included free of charge. Listing "Linux Mint" or "Ubuntu" as an item could lead to a dispute as to what specific components are being charged for and what percentage of the price is associated with each component. But again, as a practical matter, listing only the hardware and/or services provided on your invoice avoids any licensing complications to begin with. You are, in essence, selling them the hardware with the added service of installing software they could have done on their own, but would have had to invest the time and energy to do so. Regarding the "warranty" issue (which is irrelevant to the original question of charging for freely obtained software), every state imposes implied warranties in addition to any express warranties on things sold by "merchants." Also, virtually every state recognizes that an item sold "as-is" puts the consumer on notice that there are no implied warranties except those deemed non-waivable by the state's legislature. Selling something "as-is" also typically requires the seller to make absolutely no oral or written representation as to the object's quality or character. Any such statement is deemed an express warranty. Typical statements for someone in a used-item-seller position would be: "I have not used this machine since I installed the operating system. When I did install it, everything appeared to function as expected [except for _____ [and ____ ...]]." You must, in good faith, disclose any shortcomings of the hardware that you are aware of. The subject of warranties is complex. Many states have consumer protection laws (the Deceptive Trade Practices Act in Texas). I am certain California has one as well, but I am not familiar with it. A California-licensed business attorney should be able to answer most of the warranty questions in a free 1-hour consultation. But again, warranties are a wholly, distinctly separate topic from the original question of charging for software you obtained freely. |
well hell. i am not running a business, i just sell 3 or 5 machines a month , just older desktops and laptops that i want to fool with , got no interest in dealing with John Q Public on a daily basis
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If this is a onesy-twosy operation, you likely needn't bother with much of anything. Technically, to follow the letter of the law, you need to record and report the income from the sale (state and federal--there is a "hobby" section of the federal tax code that might actually provide you some tax benefits if you research it). Technically, to follow the letter of the law, you would need to follow licensing agreements. As a practical matter, for a 3 or 5 machine monthly volume, it's not economically feasible for anybody to do anything. Hiring an attorney to come after you for any alleged damages/violations would likely consume any possible judgment through attorney fees before the lawsuit is filed with the court. The only possible exception would be statutory damages (i.e. a minimum award for some legal violation). I don't see that as likely in this case--the licensing business is a civil, contract-based action. There are no punitive/statutory minimum damages in such a situation. As I said, the warranties generally do not apply for non-merchant transactions (short of the computer exploding, catching fire, or some such). The only possibility that I see where statutory minimums could come into play is with a consumer protection law (i.e. fraud). Just don't lie to anybody or consciously omit something that might influence their decision to purchase, and most of your concerns vanish. Keep in mind though, if at some point you begin to present yourself as a "polished" type of transaction (e.g. logo, trade name, uniform, etc.) then someone that buys from you could make the claim that they thought you were a merchant. |
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In NSW to teach a subject you have to be qualified in it. I teach a group of subjects within an KLA (Key Learning Area) called HSIE (Human Society in It's Environment). One of my teaching subjects in this group is, wait for it, Legal Studies. I may not sit on a bench but for you to assume I have not got the knowledge to do so is a very weak argument on your behalf. To launch into, without even knowing me or my qualifications, an "I am smarter than you I can guarantee it" is something that belittles your supposed qualifications. Quote:
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And in fact it turns out to be so simple as looking at the Linux Mint website. They offer a download of their CD without codecs with the following explanation:
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This is my last response in this ridiculous exchange.
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What, pray tell, would be sufficient evidence to convince you? That I board an airplane, fly to your home, present you with paper documents that were stamped by the Texas State Bar, an accounting that I am a member in good standing, both notarized, stamped by your country's customs, and sealed with wax to indicate the contents were undisturbed in transit? Wait, I forgot, first I would need to prove to Jeremy that I am the individual associated with this account, get a document from him proving the association (likely including a photo ID and genetic sample), have him personally accompany me to the State Bar office for the other documents, and have him verify that I boarded a connectionless flight. There is absolutely nothing that I can do to satisfy you because you will "move the goal posts" by questioning the authenticity of anything I provide. Your only recourse is to state, "I want uniquely identifying information" to authenticate my qualifications. Yet, you continue to repeat (over and over again) that "you don't know me." Precisely. Why would I want to provide you, some random person on the Internet with uniquely identifying information about myself that could be used to devastate my livelihood? How am I to know that you're not some Russian hacker looking to score a new identity to sell to criminals? How are you going to convince me that you're not? And if there's no proof that meets your exacting standards, your challenge of my claims is meaningless. There are limits on "proof." You know this, and you are hiding behind unattainable standards and/or expecting me to be an absolute moron and give you the keys to everything about me. You say that I "belittle[d] [my] supposed qualifications" by stating your original post was "rubbish." I assert that you belittle your supposed qualifications by getting worked up about it. Someone with experience in the legal field is accustomed to others making claims bordering on the outrageous, characterizing one party's actions as "beyond the pale," or "against all standards of moral decency." I find it hard to believe someone with that experience would have such a thin skin for the word "rubbish." |
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You made the statement, you should expect that people do not just fall at your feet and believe every word you post. This thread was about selling desktops and laptops with Ubuntu and Mint on it, you successfully turned it into a thread about you, well done. We didn't need the "I'm smarter than you" attitude the OP just needed good advice which you eventually gave as have others who have joined in. No one else bragged about their qualifications just you. Quote:
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@k3lt01 and Dark_Helmet, please calm down and stay on topic. Further intemperance will not be tolerated. Moreover, you might solve your disagreements privately without hijacking the thread. Thank you.
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I guess an Aggie doesn't know that you can't legally sell or for that matter posses or download some of the things in MINT unless the version if the free non-codec version in the US.
If you want to protect yourself then purchase a copy from some company as an OEM installer. The company that is big in commercial linux (RH) went after all sorts of people 15 or 20 years ago. Things that the people had to remove in included text files, art work, copy and trade mark protected items. If you want to use Ubuntu then you need to contact them. http://www.ubuntu.com/business/desktop You are not using this as a person. You have stated you are a business entity involved in making profit. Watch for things in there like this. "...2 Restrictions. Except as expressly permitted by this EULA or by applicable law, You may not (i) sell, lease, assign, license, sublicense, distribute or otherwise transfer in whole or in part the Software; (ii) permit any use of or access to the Software by any third party, (i..." |
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